M,E,R and Vacuum sealer

[Rustpot]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][Meal,Ready,Eat] [/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I was wondering if I could make M,R,E with a v[/FONT]acuum sealer? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If I were to make a beef stew and seal one meal worth of beef stew in the [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]v[/FONT]acuum sealer, and stored it in a cool dry place would it last? And if so, how long? [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Or if I dried beef [beef jerky] and dried frozen mixed vegetables, and [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]v[/FONT]acuum sealed them I wonder how long they would last? [Out of the refrigerator][/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]M,R,E has food's like; beef stew, spaghetti & meat balls, turkey & gravy, [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Apple sauce, peanut better, jelly, crackers, cake, candy, Ect...[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Could any of these foods be [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]v[/FONT]acuum sealed and stored out of the refrigerator for long period's of time? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I know foods can be stored in caning jars for long period's of time. But [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]v[/FONT]acuum sealed foods would be easy to carry. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Any ideas, what say you? [/FONT]​

 

[ChowderMan]

there's so many things wrong with this idea, not sure where to start.

short answer: No, you're inviting big trouble.
well, maybe - when you open the bag pretty sure your nose will warn you away.

first, stuff like 'the guts' of MRE's is super carefully prepared and fully sterilized. then it's packaged in 'exotic' materials/films to prevent oxygen and moisture intrusion. the HD/LD polypropylene "heat sealed pouch" aka a home style vacuum sealer does not come remotely close to such specifications. nor does the vacuum engine....

second you would need to know for sure the foodstuffs had been completely thoroughly totally made "sterile" and the permissible moisture levels of each. there's a reason the military spends billions "researching" what works and what doesn't work, and "works" is a distinct difference from "still tastes good 20 years later"

canning works because
two "perfect barriers" exist that prevent oxygen and moisture transmission: glass and metal
oxygen and / or moisture transmission = spoilage.
you'll have noticed that "canned goods" come in metal cans.
irradiation is a new technology - you can buy tuna fish in a pouch - not a FoodSaver pouch, but a pouch.

which explains the centuries old thing about glass jars with metal lids.....
they create a perfect barrier - but the next problem is establishing an interior environment which precludes the growth of bacterial/fungal buggies that will kill you when ingested. you've likely heard of canning "low acid" stuff; or making the solution 'artificially acid' to prevent spoilage.....

what may appear to be just paper covered aluminum foil in an tuna pack / MRE pack is way more sophisticated combination of materials and technology than that.

and any kind of "heat seal bag" in the supermarket does not do the job.

 

[Rustpot]

there's so many things wrong with this idea, not sure where to start.

short answer: No, you're inviting big trouble.
well, maybe - when you open the bag pretty sure your nose will warn you away.

first, stuff like 'the guts' of MRE's is super carefully prepared and fully sterilized. then it's packaged in 'exotic' materials/films to prevent oxygen and moisture intrusion. the HD/LD polypropylene "heat sealed pouch" aka a home style vacuum sealer does not come remotely close to such specifications. nor does the vacuum engine....

second you would need to know for sure the foodstuffs had been completely thoroughly totally made "sterile" and the permissible moisture levels of each. there's a reason the military spends billions "researching" what works and what doesn't work, and "works" is a distinct difference from "still tastes good 20 years later"

canning works because
two "perfect barriers" exist that prevent oxygen and moisture transmission: glass and metal
oxygen and / or moisture transmission = spoilage.
you'll have noticed that "canned goods" come in metal cans.
irradiation is a new technology - you can buy tuna fish in a pouch - not a FoodSaver pouch, but a pouch.

which explains the centuries old thing about glass jars with metal lids.....
they create a perfect barrier - but the next problem is establishing an interior environment which precludes the growth of bacterial/fungal buggies that will kill you when ingested. you've likely heard of canning "low acid" stuff; or making the solution 'artificially acid' to prevent spoilage.....

what may appear to be just paper covered aluminum foil in an tuna pack / MRE pack is way more sophisticated combination of materials and technology than that.

and any kind of "heat seal bag" in the supermarket does not do the job.

Thanks for your input C-man

 

[QSis]

I'm thinking that anything you can store outside of a fridge ANYWAY, will be fresher if you vacuum seal it.

Of the things you mentioned above, I'd guess the following would be fine: oeanut butter, crackers and beef jerky.

Forget the rest.

Lee

 

[Rustpot]

I'm thinking that anything you can store outside of a fridge ANYWAY, will be fresher if you vacuum seal it.

Of the things you mentioned above, I'd guess the following would be fine: oeanut butter, crackers and beef jerky.

Forget the rest.

Lee

Thanke you QSis

 

[Rustpot]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][Meal,Ready,Eat] [/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I was wondering if I could make M,R,E with a v[/FONT]acuum sealer? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If I were to make a beef stew and seal one meal worth of beef stew in the [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]v[/FONT]acuum sealer, and stored it in a cool dry place would it last? And if so, how long? [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Or if I dried beef [beef jerky] and dried frozen mixed vegetables, and [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]v[/FONT]acuum sealed them I wonder how long they would last? [Out of the refrigerator][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]M,R,E has food's like; beef stew, spaghetti & meat balls, turkey & gravy, [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Apple sauce, peanut better, jelly, crackers, cake, candy, Ect...[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Could any of these foods be [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]v[/FONT]acuum sealed and stored out of the refrigerator for long period's of time? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I know foods can be stored in caning jars for long period's of time. But [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]v[/FONT]acuum sealed foods would be easy to carry. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Any ideas, what say you? [/FONT]​

After doing a serch on "Vacum sealer's" I found this from a Manufactor of "Vacum sealer's" .

WARNING: Just to be clear, allow me to point out what vacuum sealing won't do for you. Any food that would need to be refrigerated or frozen to keep it from spoiling before it was vacuum sealed will still need to be refrigerated or frozen after it was vacuum sealed. Lowering the oxygen content of a storage container can do great things for deterring rancidity and insect growth, but if the food has a lot of moisture in it you'll only be providing optimum growth conditions for some serious oxygen-hating spoilage bacteria. No vacuum sealing process suited to home-use can take the place of pressure canning low-acid high-moisture foods.


Thanks guys for you wise help.

 

[joec]

I have several long term 25 to 30 years of shelf life products from vegetables to meats with ever butter etc. Now the butters are canned only as are the cheese and some of the meats. Now the vegetables are freeze dried then sealed in a can with a oxygen remover. They also come in mylar bags inside food safe containers holding x number of servings.

You might check out some of the sites such as Wise Foods, Thrive etc. You can also look at others such as Mountain House, Go Foods. My favorites though are Thrive and Wise but their are others also. I keep enough on hand for 4 people for a year.

 

[Rustpot]

I have several long term 25 to 30 years of shelf life products from vegetables to meats with ever butter etc. Now the butters are canned only as are the cheese and some of the meats. Now the vegetables are freeze dried then sealed in a can with a oxygen remover. They also come in mylar bags inside food safe containers holding x number of servings.

You might check out some of the sites such as Wise Foods, Thrive etc. You can also look at others such as Mountain House, Go Foods. My favorites though are Thrive and Wise but their are others also. I keep enough on hand for 4 people for a year.

Thanks Joec. I'll look up the sites you give.

 

[joec]

Thanks Joec. I'll look up the sites you give.

You might also check out some of the prepper sites also as they are a number that cover long term storage for foods.

Also some can goods have a longer shelf life that one thinks. For example the date on a can isn't a date that means it is bad but is a best ate by date. Some canned food have been found after a 100 years that is still perfectly safe to eat. The process means the food is sterilized and oxygen free when canned. If a can is dented, rusted or swelling then you toss it other wise odds are it is still eatable but check texture and smell to be sure. Some can meats also last a long time such as Tuna, pink Salmon, canned hams, spam, Vienna sausage etc have eat by dates often 5 to 10 years which means if can is still in tack a lot longer.

 

[Rustpot]

You might also check out some of the prepper sites also as they are a number that cover long term storage for foods.

Also some can goods have a longer shelf life that one thinks. For example the date on a can isn't a date that means it is bad but is a best ate by date. Some canned food have been found after a 100 years that is still perfectly safe to eat. The process means the food is sterilized and oxygen free when canned. If a can is dented, rusted or swelling then you toss it other wise odds are it is still eatable but check texture and smell to be sure. Some can meats also last a long time such as Tuna, pink Salmon, canned hams, spam, Vienna sausage etc have eat by dates often 5 to 10 years which means if can is still in tack a lot longer.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Thanks Joec, I have eaten can food that was 30 years old. The trick in eating anything old, or wild plants, is to eat a pinch of the food in question, then wait 1hr. If you don't get feeling bad / sick then you could eat it. Most of us would not eat food in question unless you were in a survival situation. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I have dried small chunks of beef and Vegetables, then placed them in a zip lock bag for one year [in the frig]. I added water and boiled it then ate it. Did not get sick or have any problem. I wanted to make some sort of MRE with my new [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]vacuum sealer, it would be light wight to carry for bug out. And or camping, hunting, and fishing. Any way. Thanks Joes.[/FONT] [/FONT]

 

[joec]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Thanks Joec, I have eaten can food that was 30 years old. The trick in eating anything old, or wild plants, is to eat a pinch of the food in question, then wait 1hr. If you don't get feeling bad / sick then you could eat it. Most of us would not eat food in question unless you were in a survival situation. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I have dried small chunks of beef and Vegetables, then placed them in a zip lock bag for one year [in the frig]. I added water and boiled it then ate it. Did not get sick or have any problem. I wanted to make some sort of MRE with my new [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]vacuum sealer, it would be light wight to carry for bug out. And or camping, hunting, and fishing. Any way. Thanks Joes.[/FONT] [/FONT]

I'm just now starting into canning and eventually want to get into meats also. You might look in to that also though I'll be using the glass bottle type and not the metal can type. I recently got both a pressure cooker type and water bath methods ready to go. I'm now reading up on it as I find it interesting especially if something happens to electricity etc. After 3 months of no power after Hurricane Andrew taught me to be a bit better prepared though I now don't live in a area where Hurricanes tend to happen though other natural disaster do.

 

[ChowderMan]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Thanks Joec, I have eaten can food that was 30 years old. The trick in eating anything old, or wild plants, is to eat a pinch of the food in question, then wait 1hr. If you don't get feeling bad / sick then you could eat it. Most of us would not eat food in question unless you were in a survival situation. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I have dried small chunks of beef and Vegetables, then placed them in a zip lock bag for one year [in the frig]. I added water and boiled it then ate it. Did not get sick or have any problem. I wanted to make some sort of MRE with my new [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]vacuum sealer, it would be light wight to carry for bug out. And or camping, hunting, and fishing. Any way. Thanks Joes.[/FONT] [/FONT]

eating a pinch of Clostridium botulinum tainted foods will spoil your immediate future, or quite possibly terminate your immediate future.

"prepping" a foodstore to survive 20-30 years through the reign of the zombies is not a done well homespun activity. there's a world of difference between a sack of dried beans and a sack of jerky. failure to imprepperly execute will be disappointing.

 

[Rustpot]

eating a pinch of Clostridium botulinum tainted foods will spoil your immediate future, or quite possibly terminate your immediate future.

"prepping" a foodstore to survive 20-30 years through the reign of the zombies is not a done well homespun activity. there's a world of difference between a sack of dried beans and a sack of jerky. failure to imprepperly execute will be disappointing.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]First off, I want to thank you for presenting your post kindly and with out sarcasm![/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Food borne botulism are rare.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]FDA and USDA-FSIS identified a problem with [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the canning process[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. The problem means it is possible that spores of the germ Clostridium botulinum [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]were not killed during canning,[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] so could grow and produced toxin.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]most cases of botulism are caused by improperly prepared home-canned foods or traditional Alaskan Native foods. Commercially canned foods are generally extremely safe.[/FONT]

 

[Rob Babcock]

The short answer is yes, yes you can. I use italics to be punny...you are indeed canning. It's not cheap and will take a bit of work but it's doable with the right gear. First you need a really good chamber vacuum sealer that's capable of sealing retort pouches. Retort pouches are the pouches that MREs come in. You've probably also seen them at Wal-Mart and other stores- that's what those pouches of tuna and salmon are.

Basically you need a potent machine that has dual seal bars capable of pretty high voltage. Most less expensive machines aren't capable of safely and reliably sealing retort pouches. I have a VacMaster VP215C; it's advertised as being able to do retort pouches, and I have successfully sealed them, but the head of the engineering dept told me in a phone call that he doesn't recommend it (you have to turn the seal voltage up so high that you'll prematurely burn it out). Mini-Pak and a few others are specifically set up to do retort canning.

Once you get the special bags and seal them, you then treat them like a regular can or glass jar. To safely process the food you have to pressure can them. You use a pressure canner that can hit 15 psi (most can). Again, a retort pouch is a flexible can.

I planned to do this, bought a sealer and a bunch of retort pouches. Ultimately I gave up on the plan when I realized my machine wasn't up to the task of consistently getting a good seal on retort pouches. Down the road when I'm shopping for a new chamber vac machine I will probably try to get one that can do the pouches.

If you plan to pursue this further I can give you some good links that will help you get set up. I'll warn you up front you'll probably need to drop about $3,000 to get the stuff you need, but it can be done.

 

[Rob Babcock]

To answer a question I missed, they are cans. They will be shelf stable and last for years. Probably stored (and not roughly handled) they may last a decade. The pouches aren't as sturdy as a normal can, but if you don't damage them they'll last a long time. Probably at least a few years to be on the safe side.

 

[Rustpot]

The short answer is yes, yes you can. I use italics to be punny...you are indeed canning. It's not cheap and will take a bit of work but it's doable with the right gear. First you need a really good chamber vacuum sealer that's capable of sealing retort pouches. Retort pouches are the pouches that MREs come in. You've probably also seen them at Wal-Mart and other stores- that's what those pouches of tuna and salmon are.

Basically you need a potent machine that has dual seal bars capable of pretty high voltage. Most less expensive machines aren't capable of safely and reliably sealing retort pouches. I have a VacMaster VP215C; it's advertised as being able to do retort pouches, and I have successfully sealed them, but the head of the engineering dept told me in a phone call that he doesn't recommend it (you have to turn the seal voltage up so high that you'll prematurely burn it out). Mini-Pak and a few others are specifically set up to do retort canning.

Once you get the special bags and seal them, you then treat them like a regular can or glass jar. To safely process the food you have to pressure can them. You use a pressure canner that can hit 15 psi (most can). Again, a retort pouch is a flexible can.

I planned to do this, bought a sealer and a bunch of retort pouches. Ultimately I gave up on the plan when I realized my machine wasn't up to the task of consistently getting a good seal on retort pouches. Down the road when I'm shopping for a new chamber vac machine I will probably try to get one that can do the pouches.

If you plan to pursue this further I can give you some good links that will help you get set up. I'll warn you up front you'll probably need to drop about $3,000 to get the stuff you need, but it can be done.

Top of the day to ya. Thanks Rob, I would like you to send me a few good links if you dont mind.

 

[Rustpot]

I'm just now starting into canning and eventually want to get into meats also. You might look in to that also though I'll be using the glass bottle type and not the metal can type. I recently got both a pressure cooker type and water bath methods ready to go. I'm now reading up on it as I find it interesting especially if something happens to electricity etc. After 3 months of no power after Hurricane Andrew taught me to be a bit better prepared though I now don't live in a area where Hurricanes tend to happen though other natural disaster do.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So, Joec you were living in South Florida back in 93 ? WOW! We lived in Kendall but moved in 86 to North Fl. We still have lots of Family living in & around the Kendall area. We went down to Kendall the day after Andrew to bring Supply's to Family. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][Roofing paper was one of the big need's as weeks went by, You could not find Roofing paper in all of Florida.] We could not believe what we saw there. We could not find the house my wife was raised in, All the land marks were gone, and all the houses look as if they were sand-blasted.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Being raised in South Florida I have been in 5 or 6 Hurricane, and have had the eye of 2 Hurricane pass over me. But I have never see the damage like the damage that Andrew brought.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] The coolest thing I saw when I was there, after a week, was a house with no roof on it, and a Tepee set up in the front yard and a guy sitting in front of a fire with a pot hang over the fire. That man was prepared. [/FONT]​

 

[joec]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So, Joec you were living in South Florida back in 93 ? WOW! We lived in Kendall but moved in 86 to North Fl. We still have lots of Family living in & around the Kendall area. We went down to Kendall the day after Andrew to bring Supply's to Family. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][Roofing paper was one of the big need's as weeks went by, You could not find Roofing paper in all of Florida.] We could not believe what we saw there. We could not find the house my wife was raised in, All the land marks were gone, and all the houses look as if they were sand-blasted.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Being raised in South Florida I have been in 5 or 6 Hurricane, and have had the eye of 2 Hurricane pass over me. But I have never see the damage like the damage that Andrew brought.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] The coolest thing I saw when I was there, after a week, was a house with no roof on it, and a Tepee set up in the front yard and a guy sitting in front of a fire with a pot hang over the fire. That man was prepared. [/FONT]​

I was born and raised in Miami Florida as was my wife and kids. I left in 69 for 10 years then returned till about 10 years ago when I left for Kentucky. At any rate this is a before and after shot of my place in Homestead.

 

[Rustpot]

I was born and raised in Miami Florida as was my wife and kids. I left in 69 for 10 years then returned till about 10 years ago when I left for Kentucky. At any rate this is a before and after shot of my place in Homestead.

I wish I could see the photo. All I see are 2, X,X I have an old, slow, computer.

My best friend lived in Homestead for many years. He was from N,Y and loved to fish. His name Joe. He pasted away 4 weeks ago.

I liked Miami till the 80's. We said we dont want to raise our 5 children in this place. We moved to a small town outside of Gainsville Fl.

 

[joec]

I wish I could see the photo. All I see are 2, X,X I have an old, slow, computer.

My best friend lived in Homestead for many years. He was from N,Y and loved to fish. His name Joe. He pasted away 4 weeks ago.

I liked Miami till the 80's. We said we dont want to raise our 5 children in this place. We moved to a small town outside of Gainsville Fl.

Don't know why you can't see them but will try again a different way for you. At any rate by the time we moved back in '79 my kids where in their teens and all moved by '84 with 1 married, 2 in the military and the oldest in collage and working with his own place.
Taken 6 hours before it hit


Taken 2 days later

 

[Rustpot]

Don't know why you can't see them but will try again a different way for you. At any rate by the time we moved back in '79 my kids where in their teens and all moved by '84 with 1 married, 2 in the military and the oldest in collage and working with his own place.
Taken 6 hours before it hit
View attachment 17581

Taken 2 days later
View attachment 17582

I still cant see them. It's not you, It's my computer. O-well.
My last one was born in 86, Our first was Born in the Hospital in Homestead [cant remember the name of it] The other 4,
I delivered at home. 2 boys & 3 Girls. All of yours were about to move out when I was haveing mine. Mine are all moved out now. and I have 10 Grand kids. With them all moved out it's kind of nice, just me & the Wife. As my wife say's, "She likes this season of life". We been married 38 years in Nov. If it ok to ask. How long have you been married.?

 

[joec]

I still cant see them. It's not you, It's my computer. O-well.
My last one was born in 86, Our first was Born in the Hospital in Homestead [cant remember the name of it] The other 4,
I delivered at home. 2 boys & 3 Girls. All of yours were about to move out when I was haveing mine. Mine are all moved out now. and I have 10 Grand kids. With them all moved out it's kind of nice, just me & the Wife. As my wife say's, "She likes this season of life". We been married 38 years in Nov. If it ok to ask. How long have you been married.?

If I survive till Feb 4 I will be married 50 years. Had 3 boys, 1 girl the youngest who died at 31 leaving 3 kids behind. They are now all grown with kids of their own as are all my boys. We have 17 grand kids and 9 great grand kids.

 

[Rustpot]

If I survive till Feb 4 I will be married 50 years. Had 3 boys, 1 girl the youngest who died at 31 leaving 3 kids behind. They are now all grown with kids of their own as are all my boys. We have 17 grand kids and 9 great grand kids.

50 years! I take my hat off to you Sir. That is a rarity in todays world.

I am deeply sorry to hear that about your Daughter.

17 Grand kids & 9 Great grand kids. WOW! You and your Name will live on....

 

[Rustpot]

PS. Need to upbate your, "About me" says you only have 2 Great Grand kids.

 

[joec]

PS. Need to upbate your, "About me" says you only have 2 Great Grand kids.

That was true when I did it. The fact is I told my kids when they where growing up to find something they liked and stick with it. I was talking about a career but then that seems to be their career and even the mink have nothing on them.

 

[Rustpot]

That was true when I did it. The fact is I told my kids when they where growing up to find something they liked and stick with it. I was talking about a career but then that seems to be their career and even the mink have nothing on them.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] I told my kids when they where growing up to find something they liked and stick with it. I was talking about a career Wise advice PaPa. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]but then that seems to be their career and even the mink have nothing on them. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As Groucho Mark said in the Movie, “The Big Store” [when talking to a man with 12 kids.] “Ya have any other Hobby”? [/FONT]

 

[ChowderMan]

First off, I want to thank you for presenting your post kindly and with out sarcasm!

Food borne botulism are rare.
FDA and USDA-FSIS identified a problem with the canning process. The problem means it is possible that spores of the germ Clostridium botulinum were not killed during canning, so could grow and produced toxin.
most cases of botulism are caused by improperly prepared home-canned foods or traditional Alaskan Native foods. Commercially canned foods are generally extremely safe.

I'm not sure if that was sarcasm in reply to sarcasm or whatever.
it was not my intent to make a sarcastic reply.

first the discussion was tossing a bunch of foodstuffs in a plastic Seal-A-Meal and wondering if that's a good approach.

now it's how rare botulism poisoning occurs in commercially canned foods.

so, I'm lost.

if you are a prepper thinking to make your own food stocks, consider the results of getting it wrong in the home kitchen.

as for botulism, the minimum kill temperature for the spore is 230'F - so pressure canning / processing is required.

 

[Rustpot]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I'm not sure if that was sarcasm in reply to sarcasm or whatever.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Yes! It was “sarcasm” in reply to your “sarcasm”. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]it was not my intent to make a sarcastic reply. “Whatever” [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]first the discussion was tossing a bunch of foodstuffs in a plastic Seal-A-Meal and wondering if that's a good approach.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Using the word “Tossing” as you did, is to insinuate That I lack the forethought to think something through. This is being “sarcastic”. Just as saying: “survive 20-30 years through the reign of the zombies”. I take that as childish and insulting. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Please re-read my ASKING a question on [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]vacuum sealing. And my response to the help I did get. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]​

now it's how rare botulism poisoning occurs in commercially canned foods.
I did say “[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I have eaten [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]can[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] food that was 30 years old.” Can food as well as Home can food is safe if it is caned properly. How would one know if they were in a [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]survival situation.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] Is can food was safe? [Pleas read ALL my post] [/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Food borne botulism are [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]rare.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]FDA and USDA-FSIS identified a problem with [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]the canning process[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. The problem means it is possible that spores of the germ Clostridium botulinum [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]were not killed during canning,[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]so could grow and produced toxin.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]most cases of botulism are caused by [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]improperly prepared home-canned foods[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] or traditional Alaskan Native foods. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Commercially canned foods are generally extremely safe.[/FONT] [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]so, I'm lost.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]if you are a prepper thinking to make your own food stocks, consider the results of getting it wrong in the home kitchen.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]as for botulism, the minimum kill temperature for the spore is 230'F - so pressure canning / processing is required.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I have personally, for many years home can lots of foods, including meats. I did not nor do I take lightly the proses of preserving foodstuffs. I have stored can foods & water, I know to rotate foods & water. And it has nothing to do with zombies! [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I started this thread because I just come into a vacuum sealer and wondered if it could be used to store foods in any way. [other than keeping food fresh] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I thought I would ask. Maybe this is not the place to ask such questions. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]No one is born with all knowledge, we grow when we ask questions and learn from someone who has learn. Never talk down to someone trying to learn, but lend a gentle hand to lift up in knowledge. [/FONT]​

 

[Rob Babcock]

I'll post a few links as soon as I get a minute to find them. Probably be a day or two, though.

 

[Shermie]

I might be living in the Dark Ages, but just what exactly is M,E,R?