KitchenAid Pro600 grinds to a halt...AGAIN!

JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
A year ago I rebuilt the transmission in the KA Pro600, and a couple of days ago it seized again while making a 2-loaf batch of dough for Italian bread. I have made hundreds of loaves of Italian bread since the rebuild, but the pot metal die-cast gears just cannot handle the 55% hydration dough. It's a Yugo drive train in an Abrams Tank body. A comment form completed on KS's website on Monday has gone unanswered, and I really don't expect them to respond. They are well aware of the design flaw and high failure rate among serious bread bakers, yet they advertise as if you can use it in a commercial bakery. I use 6-7 cups of flour for a 2-loaf recipe, and the book says to not exceed 14 cups. That's right up there with "If you like your plan you can keep it." I believe this will eventually hurt KA, because the bread baking blogs and forums are very much against this false advertising...lies, if you will.

That being said, Tuesday evening we went to Bed Bath & Beyond, hoping to bring home a new Bosch Universal Plus Mixer, only to learn they don't stock them in their NE Ohio stores. It's being shipped for free to our home, and will be here Tuesday, 2-11-14. This machine is rated tied for 1st place as the best home bread mixer on the market. Where the Pro600 failed with just 3.2# of dough in its bowl, the Bosch is rated at 4 kilograms, or 8.8# bowl capacity. Many people use it up to 12-15# with the stainless steel bowl option. Oh, I almost forgot. It comes with a 3-year warranty vs the KA 1-year warranty. Shows how well built this machine is.

I'm looking forward to getting back into the bread baking fun with this new toy. Full report to follow when I put it through its paces.

MCSA032678_MUM6N10UC_def.eps
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
>>I believe this will eventually hurt KA

I doubt they even care. when things get too bad the current owner will sell off the name to yet-somebody-else-again who will have it made by an even cheaper Chinese company.

it's called a "cash cow" - name recognition + big price tag.

I have the lift bowl model - but an old one - apparently pre-gearbox issues.

hopefully not using the new spiral dough hook on the old machine?
 

QSis

Grill Master
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Best of luck with your new beautiful toy, Joe!

Looking forward to seeing more of your astounding bread creations!

Lee
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
A year ago I rebuilt the transmission in the KA Pro600, and a couple of days ago it seized again while making a 2-loaf batch of dough for Italian bread. I have made hundreds of loaves of Italian bread since the rebuild, but the pot metal die-cast gears just cannot handle the 55% hydration dough. It's a Yugo drive train in an Abrams Tank body. A comment form completed on KS's website on Monday has gone unanswered, and I really don't expect them to respond. They are well aware of the design flaw and high failure rate among serious bread bakers, yet they advertise as if you can use it in a commercial bakery. I use 6-7 cups of flour for a 2-loaf recipe, and the book says to not exceed 14 cups. That's right up there with "If you like your plan you can keep it." I believe this will eventually hurt KA, because the bread baking blogs and forums are very much against this false advertising...lies, if you will.

That being said, Tuesday evening we went to Bed Bath & Beyond, hoping to bring home a new Bosch Universal Plus Mixer, only to learn they don't stock them in their NE Ohio stores. It's being shipped for free to our home, and will be here Tuesday, 2-11-14. This machine is rated tied for 1st place as the best home bread mixer on the market. Where the Pro600 failed with just 3.2# of dough in its bowl, the Bosch is rated at 4 kilograms, or 8.8# bowl capacity. Many people use it up to 12-15# with the stainless steel bowl option. Oh, I almost forgot. It comes with a 3-year warranty vs the KA 1-year warranty. Shows how well built this machine is.

I'm looking forward to getting back into the bread baking fun with this new toy. Full report to follow when I put it through its paces.

MCSA032678_MUM6N10UC_def.eps



Looks like you're so done with the KA Pro-600 or KA all together, Joe. Nice looking machine!

I own both the KA K-45SS and the K-5SS. They've been very faithful and reliable so far. Of course, I don't make bread as often as you do.

I also own THIS one - the Electrolux Assistant (now renamed the Varona Assistant). It, also, has not given me any problems. It is very unique because instead of normal beaters, it has a roller beater & scraper as well as a large dough hook. The bowl spins and powers the beater. For whipping things like maringe or heavy cream, it comes with a slightly smaller plastic bowl and a double whip assembly.

At the time, it had the largest work bowl in history - 8 qts. Now KA claims to have one the same size with their most expensive machine, costing close to $800. :eating2:
 

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JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
Been out bidding work today so I have something to do after my followup with the surgeon at the VA tomorrow. I'm bored to death just sitting around waiting for my work release.

Just unpacked my new mixer and have it on the counter. I'll be putting it through its paces tonight after dinner to see how it handles the dough.

Off to the bank and look at one more job before calling it a day. Might just enjoy a cigar before dinner as well.
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Can you show us a pic of it on your kitchen counter and let us know how good it is, JoeV?

Thanks. :eating2:
 

JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
Here it is on the counter, and the first batch of rolls from it. I can see what folks are talking about when they say this is NOT a small batch machine. The bowl capacity is massive, and the two-loaf mix looked lonesome in it. LOL Not sure which machine will go in the pantry. I have room for either one or both.

 

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Shermie

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Thanks.

I thought you said that the KA machine bit the dust. Is it fixed again? :eating2:
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
If my mixers ever fail, I will be considering THIS Globe machine (picture & link below).

I've done a considerable amount of research on it and found out that it's really good, has a reliability record that's unmatched by others and it is ETL & NSF certified for use in small restaurant and small bakery businesses. No more KA mixers for me! They are not made like they used to be when Hobart was making them! :eating2:


http://www.webstaurantstore.com/glo...l-stand-mixer-800-watt-motor-115v/377SP5.html
 

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lilbopeep

🌹 🍉 Still trying to get it right.
Site Supporter
If my mixers ever fail, I will be considering THIS Globe machine (picture & link below).

I've done a considerable amount of research on it and found out that it's really good, has a reliability record that's unmatched by others and it is ETL & NSF certified for use in small restaurant and small bakery businesses. No more KA mixers for me! They are not made like they used to be when Hobart was making them! :eating2:


http://www.webstaurantstore.com/glo...l-stand-mixer-800-watt-motor-115v/377SP5.html

Is there a link to the available attachments?
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Was considering THIS Globe model (pictured below), but it is too astronomically expensive, costing just under $1,000!

The Globe SP5 pictured above costs about $550 if you can get it at a discount, $607 without. Your machine looks good, BTW, JoeV! :eating2:
 

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JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
Thanks.

I thought you said that the KA machine bit the dust. Is it fixed again? :eating2:
It's still sitting there with "internal injuries." It doesn't run with stripped gears very well. Not sure if I'll fix it again, because it will just crap out. Might fix & sell it on Craigslist.
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Yeah, you've fixed it before, it'll just give you trouble once more if you fix it again.

I've come to the realization that KA's larger mixers are no longer reliable or dependable like their predecessors. That is why if or when mine bite the dust, I'll just get one of the Globe stand mixers.

They are the only I'd ever buy, because they are very powerful and reliable. :eating2:
 

JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
It was bugging me, so I took off the motor head and opened the transmission. Here is the failed gear (worm gear follower gear), which by the way, was the same one that failed last time. I'm going to repair it and sell it for $150 picked up here, or add actual shipping costs. It will be a good cake machine for someone, but never a bread machine. Whirlpool sure screwed up a good thing with this machine, and I was told today by my appliance repair guy to avoid all whirlpool products. They are seeing a lot of problems with refrigerators, washers and dishwashers made by Whirlpool. the Maytag brand has gone straight to hell under Whirlpool. according to Wiki...

The Whirlpool Corporation is an American multinational manufacturer and marketer of home appliances headquartered in Benton Charter Township, Michigan, United States, near Benton Harbor, Michigan.[2][3] The company has annual revenue of approximately $19 billion, 69,000 employees, and more than 70 manufacturing and technology research centers around the world. The company markets Whirlpool, Maytag, KitchenAid, Jenn-Air, Amana, Gladiator GarageWorks, Inglis, Estate, Brastemp, Bauknecht and Consul. After acquiring the Maytag Corporation on March 31, 2006, the Whirlpool Corporation surpassed Electrolux to become "the largest home appliance maker in the world."[4]
 

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Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
My refrigerator is a Whirlpool. Had it for 7 years this coming spring, but it still works with no problems.

Just this past December before Christmas, I was at a Lowe's store with a friend, helping him choose a clothes dryer. He was looking to replace a used one that hadn't too long been put into service.

We looked at Roper, which is also made by Whirlpool. And since his old washer was in use for close to 20 years, and he can't get parts for it any more, I suggested to him that it might be a good idea to buy the pair. So he did and saved a bundle of dough. So far, he has not had any trouble with the machines.

But yes, Whirlpool has dropped the ball on some things, most notably the larger KA stand mixers. They should have tested them longer before putting them out on the market so hastily!

Mine are still performing well, but I will not be buying another KA mixer again, should these quit on me! The quality, integrity, dignity, dependability and reliability just isn't there any more.

The only they are good for is their colorful LOOKS, and yeah, it seems that they just can't measure up to the task of making dough any more. That is why it was a very wise choice that you made to look into getting the Bosch machine. And speaking of Bosch, I once was interested in getting one years ago, but never did. :eating2:
 
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Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Greasing a KA stand mixer;

I don't think that I can go through with this (link below). I'd just as soon look into buying a new mixer.

I would hate to see what the grease looks like inside my now 28-year-old KA K-45WSS stand mixer! This would be just routine grease replacement.

But as the old saying goes, if it isn't broken, then don't fix it!! I once did that with an old electric hand mixer. Called myself taking it apart & lubing it with new grease. Put it back together again, and found out that it wouldn't work!! Had to toss it out and get a new one!

So I wouldn't want to go looking for trouble and then can't get out of it! :ohmy:


http://artisanbreadbaking.com/ka_greasing/
 
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JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
Dissecting ANY KitchenAid stand mixer power head is no small task. If you're not comfortable with tearing it completely down and putting it back together, then it's best left to someone else. With my mechanical engineering background, there's not too much I won't tackle on my own.
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
If you visited the link, which I'm almost certain that you did, you probably noticed that the motor was left intact. That is, the motor was not the part that needed servicing. Just the gear machinery.

And yeah, you're RIGHT!! It looked easy there, but if I were to do that, I'd get confused and perplexed, not remembering which part goes where when it is time to reassemble the machine.

And BTW, those gears look like they were all metal. My 2 KA mixers have NYLON gears, which are said to be almost as good & strong as the metal ones. :eating2:
 

Shermie

Well-known member
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Neither of mine has gotten stuck. If they do, then rather than dismantle them to repair them, I'd just give them to someone who can do the repairs themselves and go out and buy another stand mixer.
 

waybomb

Well-known member
And here I live within a mile or so of Whirlpool World HQ, and I know nobody there to bitch to or share you story with.

A few thousand people work there and I know not a one of them.

I know the guys at the outlet store, but they are not owned by Whirlpool anymore.
 

JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
And here I live within a mile or so of Whirlpool World HQ, and I know nobody there to bitch to or share you story with.

A few thousand people work there and I know not a one of them.

I know the guys at the outlet store, but they are not owned by Whirlpool anymore.
I completed an online comment form, and they never so much as replied with "Go to Hell," "Hit the road, dummy," or "We suckered another loser into buying our junk." The parts just came FedEx, so I can rebuild it and get it up for sale. Need to get the H1 grease from the restaurant supply on Monday to finish the job.
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Whirlpool probably outsourced or farmed out there outlet stores.

Common with big companies. United Airlines did it to us. Twice!! :furious:
 

Shermie

Well-known member
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I completed an online comment form, and they never so much as replied with "Go to Hell," "Hit the road, dummy," or "We suckered another loser into buying our junk." The parts just came FedEx, so I can rebuild it and get it up for sale. Need to get the H1 grease from the restaurant supply on Monday to finish the job.



How's your new mixer doing? Have you made any more dough with it yet?

Hopefully, you'll get years and years of good use from it. :eating2:
 

ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
Joe -

can you tell if the gear is cast & machined or outright machined from solid?

that big boss with the flats makes me think it's cast, then machined.
the pix of the breakage is what made me think it's cast to begin with.

shock load or defective / poor quality - or as real life seems to indicate,, no quality - on a casting could cause a tooth or two on the worm follower to fail.

machined from solid it's about not imaginable that 2-3-4 teeth would fail like that.

the pix don't show any unusual wear - looks like an el-super-cheapo casting with a light machined finish, no hardening, no temper.... the breakage looks more like something I'd expect out of pot metal.
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
All of which brings to mind that Whirlpool, even though the co boasts that the KA Pro-600 and others in its class or higher, has an all-metal transmission in the housing, the gears themselves could still be cheaply made, to which we all know, will strip and fail in time.

It boasts also, that the machines have a metal housing, but actually, it is the inner workings that really make the difference between good solid construction and crappy
workmanship. Then when you call them to tell them that your mixer is acting up, they literally blame YOU for the problem, saying things like; "Oh. You used too much flour in the dough," or "You processed the dough too long," or "You used the wrong speed."

Anything to try to point fingers at you, when all you're trying to do is use the machine like it is supposed to be used. And even though the gearbox was changed from a plastic one to a metal one, the gears themselves are still the culprit behind the machines failing so prematurely.

You were right, JoeV, when you said that the KA Pro-600 is only capable of mixing cake & bread batters, not cookie or bread dough!
 
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ChowderMan

Pizza Chef
Super Site Supporter
well, my KA has been doing bread doughs from 55-85% hydration for near three decades, so there goes that theory down the proverbial drain.

I would hazard a guess that the KA Pro600 and the KAnoNothing200 use the same gearbox/components. check out the model numbers and the part numbers.....

for some it works. but a higher wattage motor does not make the gearbox any stronger.
 

Shermie

Well-known member
Site Supporter
well, my KA has been doing bread doughs from 55-85% hydration for near three decades, so there goes that theory down the proverbial drain.

I would hazard a guess that the KA Pro600 and the KAnoNothing200 use the same gearbox/components. check out the model numbers and the part numbers.....

for some it works. but a higher wattage motor does not make the gearbox any stronger.



Chowderman, I've had my KA K-45SS almost that long. It still runs smoothly though.

I decided today to make some dough for a pizza (now in the oven). I noticed the mixer laboring a little at speed# 2! The recipe called for only about 2-1/2 to 3_3/2 cups of flour. I didn't use the full amount of flour in the recipe.

It was a recipe from my KA K-5SS's (this is the Whirlpool-made one) manual! Could this be the early start of the mixer not being able to knead dough? I bumped the speed up a notch and upon that, it seemed to do a little better. :eating2:
 
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JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
The degradation came on the heels of being acquired by Whirlpool. The older KA's were built like tanks, but as was said, more watts do not make teh machie better, especially when the gears were compromised by being cast instead of being machined from solid steel and heat treated. The theory was that the inexpensive gears would be a fail safe and be self sacrificing to save the entire transmission. to that I say bull-o-ney. They cheapened the machine to save money at the expense of of a once great name. I'd be willing to bet the idea came from some Ivy League MBA with no skin in the game who got a big bonus for cost savings, and teh consumers got crap. JMHO
 
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