Shun Knifes worth it?
- Thread starter Derek
- Start date
The Tourist
Banned
I tend to agree--as far as it goes.
I like CPM steel alloys best, no question about it. And that prejudice is backed up by my no-brother-good-inlaw. Having said that, ATS-34 and 154-CM are twins.
Additionally, I am willing to tolerate a more "mundane" alloy, if and only if there's some positive attribute I am seeking.
We're all familiar with the reality show where sailors go crab fishing. If I was with that crew I would more likely take a knife of 440C or ZDP-189 than I would one of D2.
Another issue is HT. All of the truly superior knives I own in my personal collection are done by Paul Bos. He's not the only guy with a flame and a vat of oil, but why risk a winning season?
Last but not least is my personal association with Ben Dale. We speak about once per week. We exchange information, he is gracious enough to send me prototype stones--and even secure stones and glaziers glass for my benefit. I believe that the best knife in the world finally has to undergo a sharpening/polishing.
If I can consult with Dwade in Canada and Ben, I have decades of experience at my ready.
To a lesser degree, I also speak with Josh Graham (a cutler) perhaps once per month on his ideas and latest inventory. I also believe that routine conversations with cutlers is another valuable tool in the business.
S.Shepherd
New member
also, Japanese steel is very consistant. When Hitachi lists their #2 white having 1% carbon..thats exactly what's in it. Alot of times you fin american steels have less than consistant ammounts of what's in their steel.
What does that really mean? it means that the final product is alot more consistant in it's heat treating/final hardness.
S.Shepherd
New member
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yes, but CPM154CM is not the same as 154cm
Crucible likes to keep their exact recipies a bit of a secret
Rob Babcock
New member
There's a lot of competition in the J-knife category nowadays. Thanks to the 'net the word has spread over the years. Any time a brand gets popular the fanboys and the haters will come out of the woodwork, and Shun is definitely one of the highest profile Japanese brands right now, due in large part to Alton Brown & Good Eats.
I've owned and used a variety of brands and I feel Shun is pretty competitive in its price range. I also like the shape of the Shun Chef knife for a lot of things (it's a bit more "German" in shape than most). A Shun will cost more than a Tojiro but it's a better knife IMO, certainly the F&F is considerably better.
You can buy a Shun and know you've purchased a "serious" knife. Obviously it won't have the snob appeal of lesser known brands but if you're buying it to use it as opposed to brag about it it will serve you well.
I've owned and used a variety of brands and I feel Shun is pretty competitive in its price range. I also like the shape of the Shun Chef knife for a lot of things (it's a bit more "German" in shape than most). A Shun will cost more than a Tojiro but it's a better knife IMO, certainly the F&F is considerably better.
You can buy a Shun and know you've purchased a "serious" knife. Obviously it won't have the snob appeal of lesser known brands but if you're buying it to use it as opposed to brag about it it will serve you well.
joec
New member
Now I don't pretend to know a lot about steels other than what I like for kitchen knives. I want something that is easy to sharpen, takes an good acute edge an holds it for a reasonable amount of time. With that said my requirements might be different than others needs. I'm not a pro cook so in an average meal for 2 I might cut up a single onion, bell pepper etc which a pro will cut in lbs. per day. A knife that would go dull for a pro in a single day will hold and edge for me for a couple of months. Being a home cook with a lot of knives I can also rotate as blades get dull so again I keep my sharpening to a minimum which means longer life for the knife. I have knives in Powder Steels, Molybdenum, VG1, 440C, VG10 as well as Virgin Carbon, White #1 and Blue Super Steels. Each knife has different qualities that really effects the job they knife is designed for. I also prefer cleavers in HRC 61 to 64 range while Chef's/gyuto knives in the 59 to 60 range. But then those are what I've found work best for me over the last 3 years. How I sharpen each for a given purpose would take a lot more typing than I'm prepared for at the moment but will say the harder the steel the more acute angle within reason. I rarely sharpen above 15 degrees and never below 8 degrees.
My knife of first choice in my home kitchen is the Chinese pattern Japanese Virgin Carbon thin cleavers followed by VG10 stainless steels. These are just my favorites based on the my first requirements. I find they meet my requirement with room to spare. I'm also sure that others would as well however I also have a self imposed price limit on what I purchased in knives when buying which was $250 maximum and I rarely went over $150 for anything.
My knife of first choice in my home kitchen is the Chinese pattern Japanese Virgin Carbon thin cleavers followed by VG10 stainless steels. These are just my favorites based on the my first requirements. I find they meet my requirement with room to spare. I'm also sure that others would as well however I also have a self imposed price limit on what I purchased in knives when buying which was $250 maximum and I rarely went over $150 for anything.
The Tourist
Banned
Yes, they took the vanadium out of this alloy to keep that carbide size down. I'm "iffy" about the trade-off.
I always believed that there was a needed reason to have molybdenum, vanadium, chromium and manganese in stainless alloys. If there's an unwanted aspect to the mix, then re-mix it, don't totally eliminate elements.
With proper HT, I can polish S30V to a mirror finish. It might be more difficult, but the ease in which something is done never seems to me to be a proper trade-off for excellence.
FryBoy
New member
Just ordered a Hattori HD Damascus 240mm Guyto for $167.95 plus $5 shipping, no tax. Regular price was $205.95.
Got it from www.worldknives.com -- you have to join their Gold Club to get the sale price. Membership is free. Good outfit -- I've bought many knives from them and never had a problem.
Got it from www.worldknives.com -- you have to join their Gold Club to get the sale price. Membership is free. Good outfit -- I've bought many knives from them and never had a problem.
The Tourist
Banned
I agree with JoeC. If I was going to buy a similar knife, that would be one of the front-runners. Good knife, competitive price, it will last forever and give you yeoman service! I'm jealous!
FryBoy
New member
Thanks -- I'm sure I will! I have a couple of Hattori HDs already, including a 270MM Guyto and a 170mm Santuko. I don't need the new one, but I want it and the price was excellent.
Need and want are two very different things. I do collect knives, mostly folders, and I'm very partial to Hattori.
buzzard767
golfaknifeaholic
buzzard767
golfaknifeaholic
Ring the bell. I think we have a winner here. Congratulations and enjoy. Great knives make cooking fun. No doubt about it.
PieSusan
Tortes Are Us
For those left-handed, Korin charges a $25 conversion fee to make a knife left-handed. However, I like the shape of the handle a lot.
Now, I really want to read that book about knives and handle a few! And I just measured and found that my chef's knife is shorter than I thought--it is 8". Funny how I always thought I was using 10". It just seems like such a big, heavy knife to me.
Buzz, I love the rehandle job you did for your daughter--it is beautiful and quite special as hers is now unique. I don't know how I missed this thread before.
Once again, thanks for all your patience and advice about knives. I know I am going to replace my chef's knife--it is just a matter of reading more and holding a few in my hand.
Now, I really want to read that book about knives and handle a few! And I just measured and found that my chef's knife is shorter than I thought--it is 8". Funny how I always thought I was using 10". It just seems like such a big, heavy knife to me.
Buzz, I love the rehandle job you did for your daughter--it is beautiful and quite special as hers is now unique. I don't know how I missed this thread before.
Once again, thanks for all your patience and advice about knives. I know I am going to replace my chef's knife--it is just a matter of reading more and holding a few in my hand.
joec
New member
PieSusan
Tortes Are Us
For those interested in pricing of the Misono UX10 knives:
http://www.epicedge.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=1267&cat=Misono+UX10
http://www.epicedge.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=1267&cat=Misono+UX10
joec
New member
Or even cheaper with faster deliveries Susan go with http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/MISONO2.html.
Average shipping $7 per order regardless of number of knives 3 days from Japan to US Customs, 2 days customs to you regardless of where you live. Absolutely the best customer service on the planet bar none. 90% of my knives have come from them with the other 10% from either private sources EE, Korin's or Japanese Wood Working.
Average shipping $7 per order regardless of number of knives 3 days from Japan to US Customs, 2 days customs to you regardless of where you live. Absolutely the best customer service on the planet bar none. 90% of my knives have come from them with the other 10% from either private sources EE, Korin's or Japanese Wood Working.
joec
New member
They are neither left nor right Susan they are double bevel for the most part with a few exceptions. The gyuto, sujihiki, western deba, petty, nakiri are all basically double bevel with the handles the same on both sides. So if you use them left or right handed doesn't make much difference really. As for the boning knives the are biased to the right side with the bones on the left though my wife who is left handed doesn't seem to notice the difference and uses them just fine. As I said the traditional Japanese designed knives tend to be right handed with a premium being paid for left handed knives. Shun blade it doesn't make much difference it is the handle that makes them left of right which again my wife loves the feel of the right handed ones (all I own) and she is a south paw.
buzzard767
golfaknifeaholic
Yes, about 40% more. It's not worth it Susan. The Korin $25 deal is as follows: Most double bevels come right had biased with the the bevel on the right side larger than the bevel on the left. That's it. Korin then takes the same blade and grinds away on the left side so that it is now larger than the right. For 25 bucks you get less blade because they have ground it away. Don't do it. You're better off to buy a stone like a King 1k/6k combo and sharpen only the left side. After several sharpenings you wind up with a left hand bias double bevel. It's no big deal and for a lefty to use a right hand bias is hardy noticeable. I've had dozens.
PieSusan
Tortes Are Us
Thanks, Buzz. As I told Joe, I have been researching about knives online since our last discussions and I think that I need to read the knife book and hold some knives in my hand. My head is swimming a bit.
I was hoping that some of my questions would also benefit Lefty because a new knife is on his wish list as well. I don't mind asking questions and trying to learn from people who know far more about a subject than I probably ever will.
I was hoping that some of my questions would also benefit Lefty because a new knife is on his wish list as well. I don't mind asking questions and trying to learn from people who know far more about a subject than I probably ever will.
buzzard767
golfaknifeaholic
Getting the feel of a knife is easy as long as you limit yourself to those readily available like Shun, Gobal, Wusthof, and Henkels. Other Japanese knives are only found at a handful of US retailers. Most of us rely on reports by others to make decisions. J knives tend to balance out on the blade an inch or two as opposed to at the bolster like most German knives. J users generally use a pinch grip for more control so with part of the hand on the blade itself the difference is negligible.
PieSusan
Tortes Are Us
That was exactly one of the things that I wasn't sure that I could get use to with the J knives. The grip is different from what I am used to--I just don't know if I can adapt or not. It is why I want to have the knives in my hand. It will help me make my choice.
It sort of does go back to what Andy taught me. A sharp knife is safer, and it has to be weighted and feel right in your hand.
I know I don't have the same need for the same kind of knives that you would purchase and that is ok. I just want something better than the knife that my mom has waterlogged. It is still serviceable and I can sharpen it with the little sharpener that Andy bought me. It needs it. I don''t like how it cuts through celery.
It sort of does go back to what Andy taught me. A sharp knife is safer, and it has to be weighted and feel right in your hand.
I know I don't have the same need for the same kind of knives that you would purchase and that is ok. I just want something better than the knife that my mom has waterlogged. It is still serviceable and I can sharpen it with the little sharpener that Andy bought me. It needs it. I don''t like how it cuts through celery.
