I hope the edits answered your question, GG.
Irish Cuisine
- Thread starter VeraBlue
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GotGarlic
New member
LOL 
FryBoy
New member
The article you cite seems to come to a different conclusion. It points out that although salted beef was eaten in ancient times, it was pretty much the stuff of kings, not the common people. Indeed, it correctly points out that most of my Irish ancestors got their first taste of beef when they came to America, and when they did, they treated it like an Irish bacon joint. The authors conclude, "And it can safely be said that corned beef and cabbage won't be a terribly common meal among the locals," which explains the title of the article: Why We Have No Corned Beef & Cabbage Recipes.
This is the original, much-loved, much-missed dish that Irish immigrants of the nineteenth century were trying to make when they came to North America...and when they couldn't get the pork they really wanted, they made do with salted (corned) beef instead. (See the article here for the details. The facts may surprise you.)
The other article you cited is from a family magazine in Virginia. I put more stock in the opinions of the Irish when it comes to things Irish.
buckytom
Grill Master
with all due respect fry, i'd hate to hang the culinary definition of an entire island nation on the opinions of one or two chefs. especially irish ones. afterall, with a few pints in our bellies, most irishmen feel they're not far from god, so our words and our fists are law.
that's a large part of the reason why it was impossible to get the irish to unite and toss the limey bastards out throughout history. but that's another story.
i thought it strange that the guy said there is no irish cuisine, but that it's being re-invented. how do you re-invent something that doesn't exist.
that's a large part of the reason why it was impossible to get the irish to unite and toss the limey bastards out throughout history. but that's another story.
i thought it strange that the guy said there is no irish cuisine, but that it's being re-invented. how do you re-invent something that doesn't exist.
The thing is, when I was a resident of England (married to an Irishman and having Scotch/Irish kinfolk), they'd never heard of what we can traditionally purchase as a corned beef brisket.
Believe me I looked.
All that is available over there or was at that time was something in a can, covered in disgusting jelly- when I was searching for it.
So, I decided to buy a beef brisket and follow a recipe.
I had to rub it with a ton of salt and cover it in peppercorns and a marinade.
Didn't taste the way I wanted it to, but Steven and family liked it.
We had it for an Easter dinner back in '01, with cabbage, mashed potatoes and carrots.
Believe me I looked.
All that is available over there or was at that time was something in a can, covered in disgusting jelly- when I was searching for it.
So, I decided to buy a beef brisket and follow a recipe.
I had to rub it with a ton of salt and cover it in peppercorns and a marinade.
Didn't taste the way I wanted it to, but Steven and family liked it.
We had it for an Easter dinner back in '01, with cabbage, mashed potatoes and carrots.
buckytom
Grill Master
my dad's family was raised on a farm in ireland in the first half of the 19th century. like most relatively poor farmers, their diet consisted of lots of root veggies and starches like potatoes and bread. spuds and root veggies grow well in the irish climate. they even harvested seaweed, called dulse, for both food and fertilizer. my dad fondly remembers drying it on racks in the sun with his mom.
when they had meat, it was mostly from (locally caught) fish, chickens, turkeys, lambs, and pigs. cows were far more valuable for milk, so it stands to reason that beef was rarely consumed. american style corned beef would have been non-existent to the masses.
actually, my grandfather raised turkeys and sheep, and bartered them for milk from a neighbors cow, and flour from the local mill, and so on.
when a family slaughtered a pig, what wasn't immediately consumed was cured so it wasn't wasted. therefore, the traditional dish of boiled bacon or ham (boiling removed some of the saltiness) was common. at least in the rural north midlands.
when they had meat, it was mostly from (locally caught) fish, chickens, turkeys, lambs, and pigs. cows were far more valuable for milk, so it stands to reason that beef was rarely consumed. american style corned beef would have been non-existent to the masses.
actually, my grandfather raised turkeys and sheep, and bartered them for milk from a neighbors cow, and flour from the local mill, and so on.
when a family slaughtered a pig, what wasn't immediately consumed was cured so it wasn't wasted. therefore, the traditional dish of boiled bacon or ham (boiling removed some of the saltiness) was common. at least in the rural north midlands.
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It's very difficult to find a lot of things in the United Kingdom if you want to prepare something that has become a traditional American dish from our ancestors, Tom.
But, as with anything else- you work with what you can find.
For example; my first Thanksgiving in that country, I couldn't just go to the store and buy a frozen bird, I had to go to the butcher's and place an order for a 12 lb turkey.
Making the pumpkin pie had to be done with a fresh pumpkin, as there was no canned available.
God I miss that place.
But, as with anything else- you work with what you can find.
For example; my first Thanksgiving in that country, I couldn't just go to the store and buy a frozen bird, I had to go to the butcher's and place an order for a 12 lb turkey.
Making the pumpkin pie had to be done with a fresh pumpkin, as there was no canned available.
God I miss that place.
da noith is!
buckytom
Grill Master
the occupied territory?
a reporter was driving through leitrim one day and saw a pit bull attacking a little baby. before he could stop, he saw another man stomp on the dog, killing it, and save the baby.
the reporter took some pictures and asked the man his name and some info for a story.
"i can see the headlines now", the reporter said, "irish man saves the day."
the man said he wasn't really irish, that he was from the northern counties.
the headline in the newspaper the next day said, "beloved family pet killed by orange bastard!"
a reporter was driving through leitrim one day and saw a pit bull attacking a little baby. before he could stop, he saw another man stomp on the dog, killing it, and save the baby.
the reporter took some pictures and asked the man his name and some info for a story.
"i can see the headlines now", the reporter said, "irish man saves the day."
the man said he wasn't really irish, that he was from the northern counties.
the headline in the newspaper the next day said, "beloved family pet killed by orange bastard!"
I never lived in Ireland.
My home was West Yorkshire, first West Ardsley on the Leeds/Wakefield border, then Normanton.
My home was West Yorkshire, first West Ardsley on the Leeds/Wakefield border, then Normanton.
FryBoy
New member
You make a good point, BT, especially given the cosmopolitan nature of modern society. What defines a nation's cuisine is not apparent when you can buy tacos, hamburgers, and kung pao chicken in every mini-mall, and where people are more apt to buy a frozen dinner than make something from scratch.
However, we do know what people ate in the past, and in those days the choices were very limited in most parts of the world. Ireland was no exception. I think that's the context in which the chef said there's no "Irish cuisine," and that seems to be true compared to places like France, Italy, and China.
I watched Anthony Bordain one time and I saw him visit a local pub in ireland, they were talking about corned beef. Of the 6 people he asked I believe 4 of them didn't know what it was and a priest yes he was in a pub said corned beef wasn't Irish. Good have been another show, I could have been drinking green beer and I could have been hung over. lol
here were having corned beef, cabbage,carrots,taters,cabbage all in one pot.
Got some corned beef for .99/lb, waiting for .49/lb then gonna stock up to make some pastrami
here were having corned beef, cabbage,carrots,taters,cabbage all in one pot.
Got some corned beef for .99/lb, waiting for .49/lb then gonna stock up to make some pastrami
K
Kimchee
Guest
Dunno if it is traditional Irish fare, but it is percieved as such here in America... at least my slice..
Gonna make a Shepherd's Pie, using ground lamb. Just not in the mood for corned beef and cabbage this year.
And green beer, if I remember to get coloring.
Gonna make a Shepherd's Pie, using ground lamb. Just not in the mood for corned beef and cabbage this year.
And green beer, if I remember to get coloring.