Ripped from
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPCookin
Even an inexpensive knife can have a reasonable lifespan between sharpenings with proper use of a steel.
I use a steel that came with a block set 30 years ago to poke holes for planting seeds in the garden. Don't use them for knives if you can avoid it. Use a fine ceramic steel like the Idahone or a HandAmerican Borosilicate steel. I steel "steel" will rip up the edge as can easlily be seen with a loupe. Not good, and definitely not sharp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPCookin
You're saying that using a "steel" steel is wrong???? Gee, it seems to have worked for me for a good many years. It also works for a LOT of professionals, including the instructors at the cooking school classes I attended some years ago. They even have a professional sharpener come in to teach proper knife maintenance, and HE used a standard steel.
So I'm justifiably puzzled by your assertions.
You can see for yourself. Sharpen a knife on stones up to 4k grit, better yet, 8 or 10k if you have one. Look at the edge with a 20x loupe. It's nice and smooth. Now steel it with a 1200 grit ceramic steel and look at it again. Roughed up a little (very very little) but still sharp and serviceable. Now steel it with a steel steel and look again. There are some micro chips and lots of tiny steel hairs.
It had been along time since I've even thought about such simple concepts so I actually took the time to screw up a very nice edge to reprove it to myself. I took a thirty year old Chicago Cutlery slicer with steel comparable to modern day German forged knives. It had been sharpened and polished with a 10 degree secondary bevel and a 15 degree primary bevel and polished to 4k grit. It was sharper than anything you can buy by a long shot. To test the edge I used a combination of visuals with the 20x loupe and the
Murray Carter 3 finger test. First I used a 1200 grit Idahone ceramic steel. The result was as always, toothy, and very sharp with almost no changes visually. Then I used a steel steel and the resulting edge was only moderately sharp and contained the steel hairs as described above. The 3 finger test screamed dull dull DULL. I once again used the ceramic steel and the edge came right back to being sharp and toothy with no microchips and no steel hairs.
A steel steel is nothing more than a common hardened tool steel round file!
You tell me that the steel steel makes your knives sharp and that's the way the "experts" teach it at culinary schools. The experts are teaching a way to put an edge on a knife that will cut but just barely. I can tell you with no reservations that you have probably never seen a really sharp knife. You can do some independent research. There are two dedicated kitchen cutlery knife sites,
here and
here. Both forums are populated by many Chefs who also happen to be knife guys. Please go to them, join up, and ask them if a steel steel will make your knives sharp. Also, don't forget to ask them their opinions on the knife sharpening classes at culinary schools.
Buzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North
when I purchased a 3-piece set of Chicago Cutlery knives, they came with an accompanying steel. The steel is harder than many that I've seen, and is smooth. Instructions stated that when my knives became dull, I could back steel them, then steel forward again and return the knives to a reasonable sharpness. Now those old knives hold an edge very well, but are hard to sharpen. Back-steeling proved to be a quick way to at least partially restore the edge. I've used the technique for years and my knives go through tomatoes, and virtually everything I cut or slice with ease.
I'll be darned. I've never seen a set come with a "smooth" steel. They are very appropriate for soft to medium hard edges. These edges tend to roll with use. That is, the final .5 mm or so will be pushed slightly to the side and the knife will no longer cut as well. The smooth steel rectifies this by gently pushing or pulling the bent portion back into alignment and the cutting ability is regained. This can be accomplished several times between actual sharpening sessions. Eventually the metal becomes fatigued and falls apart in use and you'll know it by its inability to recover. Then its back to the stones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North
On the other hand, I have two crock-sticks (ceramic rods) that are very smooth. After sharpening with my Smith's Arkansas stone, If I then try to finish them with the crock-stick, they actually seem to be less sharp. But if I very lightly steel them, and I mean barely touching the metal, the edge becomes much more keen.
The finest ceramic rod is 1200 grit. If you sharpen with a 2k stone followed by the rod you are dulling the edge you just completed. Don't use a rod until you need it as it is not part of the sharpening sequence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodweed of the North
I have heard that finishing a knife edge with a strop that has been rubbed with jeweler's rouge will put a proper convex curve on the edge, making it stronger, less resistant to fold-over, and give the ultimate sharpness. Leather belts suitable for making a strop seem hard to find in my town.
Convexing: This technique makes a very strong edge. The caveat is that compared to a straight bevel, the rounded portion makes the blade fatter near the edge and increases friction thus lessoning cutting ability somewhat. Straight bevel weakness is compensated for by adding a micro bevel which adds strength. It's a little hard to explain without pictures so if you need the references I'll dig them up for you.
Pure straight bevels are only possible using mechanical devices such as the EdgePro. Free handing on stones imparts a convex edge to one degree or another because it is impossible to maintain the exact same angle at all times on the stones.
Strops: Nothing finishes an edge like a strop. The difference is mind boggling and must be seen to be believed.
A simple strop is as easy as gluing a thin, smooth piece of leather onto a 2x4. You can load it with any non greasy or non pumice laden media you want. Your suggestion of jeweler's rouge works. I prefer higher quality control and use only one particular brand of .5 micron liquid and powdered chromium oxide because the particle size is consistent. .5 micron equals about 50k grit so you can see what a high degree of polish it imparts.
When I go all out I finish with a 10k stone, then strop with .5 chromium oxide followed by stropping with .25 diamond spray. This is overkill for sure but extreme sharpening is a hobby of mine so I push the limits on a regular basis.
I've done some experiments using several different types of steels, ie. carbon, stainless, and even semi stainless tool steels. I sharpened them and used 2k as my final stone. I finished with chromium oxide stropping. In every case the increase in cutting ability was beyond description. If you're interested in this I'd be happy to post my sources.
Buzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPCookin
Since all I'm after is a functional knife, and I seem to be able to get that without spending a great deal of time at it, I'm happy with my methods. I'm not, nor will I ever be a professional. I also don't plan to use my knives for shaving... Gillette takes care of that for me.
Each to his own and whatever works for you. I fully realize that I am the exception but that's what works for me. Like I said in the previous post, "This is overkill for sure but extreme sharpening is a hobby of mine so I push the limits on a regular basis."
This is what I do. For anyone who want truly sharp knives, just ask me how.
__________________
Buzz