Born Again American

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Mexico Karen said:
I watched the video, buzz, and I found it very inspiring. One of the reasons we moved to Mexico is that we had lost faith in the American political system, and recent changes have not convinced us to move back, but we are encouraged.

I am probably opening a HUGE can of worms here, but one line in the song troubles me, e.g., "My Bible and my Bill of Rights..." Since the very first item in the Bill of Rights is as follows:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It seems to me that our former leaders' posture of exclusivity and insistence on "Christian" values (including lying, cheating and stealing?) helped to tear our nation apart, not encourage us to work together. So the inclusion of the word "Bible" makes me a little uneasy. Can anyone else understand this?

Hope I haven't offended anyone.....is this against the rules?

Edited to add: We both remain committed participants in the American political process and in addition to voting in the last election, we also contributed to political campaigns. Regardless of where anyone lives, the success and well-being of the USA remains important.
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i for one totally agree with you. what i think of christianity
has nothing to do with it. that phase bothered me as well
 
buzzard767 said:
After spending a little time doing serious retirement things like practicing golf and making a run to Publix I returned home to this thread. Whoa! :huh: Lots of very bright conversation, but did anyone like the video? I did and that's why I posted it in the first place. :oops:
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i was very moved by the video. i did sign the pledge. but i do think religion has nothing or should have nothing to do with being a proud and productive american.

babe
 
Yes I liked the video! LOL.

As a Christian I can say I don't want my government in my religion, or my religion in my government.
I don't think you have to be a Christian to have morals... and I think the same applies to any other religion. Religion can be hijacked for the furtherance of individuals personal goals and ambitions, I think this is why the founding fathers really kept them separate, in addition to ensuring and protecting religious freedom.

It made me very sad when some people firebombed a Mosque to the south of us, and then nearly killed three Muslims by dragging them into the streets and beating them.
This is exactly the kind of behavior that prompted our forefathers to flee Europe and come here...

And that is as far as I am going on religion and politics, it would look bad if a Mod got himself in trouble, LOL!
 
I did watch the video but will not sign any pledges. I had a problem with saying the pledge of allegiance every morning in school followed by the lord's prayer. A pledge needs to be made once not daily as it loses its meaning and becomes nothing more than words, as for prayer I won't go there.
 
babe said:
i did sign the pledge
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I don't sign pledges. Or buy chocolate bars to send kids to Washington D.C., or even provide alibis in trial de novo matters.

My Dad had a saying, "Good things are good because they are good."

Simplistic, yes, but think about it.

If something truly has worth, it doesn't need me to defend it or voice a concern. Ben Dale doesn't need it, neither does Mike Dillon. I know one tinker who wraps his repaired knives with a bandage attached. 'Nuff said.

When some idiot holds out a scrap of paper pleading for your support, I think of the line from "Guys n' Dolls" and getting a earful of lemonade.
 
The Tourist said:
If something truly has worth, it doesn't need me to defend it or voice a concern. Ben Dale doesn't need it, neither does Mike Dillon.
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Didja know that Dillon was an airline pilot? We've got you surrounded. I'm a hand loader too, Chico, and a former maker of custom all weather mountain rifles long before the major manufacturers saw the light :glare:
 
The Tourist said:
I don't sign pledges. Or buy chocolate bars to send kids to Washington D.C., or even provide alibis in trial de novo matters.

My Dad had a saying, "Good things are good because they are good."

Simplistic, yes, but think about it.

If something truly has worth, it doesn't need me to defend it or voice a concern. Ben Dale doesn't need it, neither does Mike Dillon. I know one tinker who wraps his repaired knives with a bandage attached. 'Nuff said.

When some idiot holds out a scrap of paper pleading for your support, I think of the line from "Guys n' Dolls" and getting a earful of lemonade.
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One man’s ideas of a better life or way is nothing without support. Support is either showing it publicly or by living it personally, but if we agree, then we support it in some way, shape, or form. Nothing wrong with that. That’s why we’re what we are today…..a bunch of British Colonists that supported an idea. If everyone just bowed their heads when Martin Luther King spoke, what would’ve happened?
 
June 14th 1954 is when 'under God' was added. Reading the time line it is very interesting stuff. It has been changed several times, but the most interesting part was changing the Bellamy Salute, LOL. It went from arm out palm up (very close to the Nazi salute) to hand over the heart.
 
Yes I learned it before the Under God was added and if necessary still say it the way I learned it, with out the under god line. I got a kick out of all the BS about Obama not saluting the during the star spangle banner, when he isn't in uniform he isn't required to do anything except stand there. Only when saying the pledge does one place their hand over their heart and only the military in uniform salute the flag.
 
The founding fathers were, for the most part, deists. They claimed faith in something, but declined to state an exact nature for a supreme being. And you know, I am probably one of those, too. I also really don't care what anybody else believes, or doesn't believe. None of my business. I also served in the U.S. military. Army, '69-'75. I enlisted when I was 17 to get off the streets. I fought bled and killed for a lie...Gulf of Tonkin Incident. Pure bullshit. I lost a lot of friends in those years, and came home highly politicized. My stepson enlisted in the Army and served in Iraq. Came home broken badly, and has attempted suicide twice. The look in his eyes is one I have seen before...he will eventually succeed at it. It leaves me with little patience for armchair warriors and glory boys. I don't question peoples' "Americanism" because I disagree with their beliefs, and don't have any use for folk who question mine. I do rather dislike seeing a food forum being turned political...I came here to get away from that kind of bullshit. Have a lovely evening. ****ing lovely.
 
I'm simply tired of "victim-hood." Why does everyone have to have a scapegoat to somehow underwrite the bumps they endure in life?

For example, a few years back our local schools had to cancel Halloween parties for their kids. The reason? It scared the Hmong children.

We diginify the sensitivities of the Hmong, yet vilify the unique attributes of Christianity.

If you prance around in a silly outfit to a rigid doctrine and secret hierachies and you're the Klan, we allow you to show open hostility. If you prance around in a silly outfit to a rigid doctrine and secret hierachies and you're a papist, you're somehow insulated from criticism despite being a foreign sovereign.

The underlying issue is that your plight has long since been sealed by "victimhood." If you can used as a bad example for someone to justify his sloth and laziness, well, you're the enemy.

Where are you in more danger? At an Angel's barbeque or at a hip-hop awards show? Careful how you answer...
 
"Where are you in more danger? At an Angel's barbeque or at a hip-hop awards show? Careful how you answer..."

...or what? I've been to both, and don't care for either. Too old for hip-hop, and as to the other, I've had my share of drugs and violence. And, you know, you sound like a...victim.
 
gadzooks said:
And, you know, you sound like a...victim.
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Oh, you're close on that one, I feel "victimized." And that's the point of my comment.

I'm white, I spent 30 years working in finance, I vote, I live comfortably and drive a vehicle with a V-8 motor.

If you've listened to the news lately (especially during the latest campaign) I'm the "enemy." During the 1950s I would have been the Beaver's father.

What happened?

Simply, being a professional victim. If you borrowed too much money, yikes it must be the fault of the banks--those evil bastards. Everyone knows they're all members of The Trilateral Commission.

Lost your job at the car plant? Well, it must be the unions, or those oil companies--those evil bastards. Probably in bed with the Saudis.

No health care? Must be those doctors and pharmaceutical companies--those evil bastards. But when was the last time you went to the gym, or quit smoking or walked to work?

What I'm really tired of is being accused for the excesses of the lazy.
 
Papists...I guess that would be Catholics. And hip-hop awards ceremony...blacks? Umm, Hmong children...those would be the children and grandchildren of the people who fought and died alongside Americans in Viet Nam. Or gooks. I think I get the picture. And if your bank failed and lost billions, it's probably the fault of poor people taking out loans they couldn't repay. Ever work an assembly line? I have. Not a place for the lazy. I've also made steel and dug coal. Steel was off-shored and the big mills closed down. By the owners, not the unions. Health care? I have the VA, thank God. Because I can't afford what the insurance companies charge these days. I hear I'm not the only one. I also hear all that investing is mighty hard work.
 
Your point? I worked on a loading dock and as a mechanic. I still work, although I don't have to if I choose.

My real point is that everytime I hear something about what's wrong with America it's usually griping from someone not contributing at all.

(BTW, those elementary school age Hmong, just what branch of the American army did they fight for? The Sesame Street Rangers?)

There's a lot 'right' with this country. You never hear about it. If BHO is correct then someone ought to jump up on the table of a beer hall and fire a Luger into the ceiling. No one says you have to sit home and watch Oprah until your welfare check arrives.

If you got laid-off, then start your own company. We live in America, you don't need the permission of the Communist Polit Bureau to start a business.

Have times been tough at some points? You bet. I had to live through Jimmy Carter. Any time my wife and I had a drive over a great distance we would count how many broken abandoned cars would be off to the side of the road. A few of my friends were patching up old VW beetles to drive to work. But they didn't roll over and quit.

Nor did we look for people to blame.
 
OK, too deep and too hot. I am closing the thread and will await the final decision of the senior mods.


Edited by Doc:
Thanks Mav. Good call.
Guys, this is a cooking forum. I do not want to make any subjects taboo. Religion, politics ...whatever. But this is not a debate forum. If you want debate join www.forumsforums.com or one of the other thousands of debate forums. Here I request you state your opinion / observation once and then move on. If you want to debate a point further, start a thread on forums forums and post a link in whatever thread it pertains to. Others that wish to will follow and discuss. Thanks for your cooperation. :tiphat:
 
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