"Andros Diner" Greek Restaurant Salad Dressing

Gramps

Gramps

New member
For many years, there was a small Greek restaurant just west of Boston, MA in Belmont, MA named the "Andros Diner." A local favorite, it was most famous for its amazing "home-made" Greek salad dressing, best described as pink in color, loaded with crumbled feta cheese, creamy yet thin, complex in flavor... and relatively sweet (i.e., not overly "tart") for what otherwise could be mistaken for a typical "red wine vinegar and olive oil" salad dressing such as this one:

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http://www.kensfoods.com/kf/product...ctId=39&productCategoryId=3&productFlavorId=6

Add crumbled feta cheese to the Ken's dressing above and you've got the exact same look (but not the same flavor).

You could damn near drink this stuff it was so good. It was never over-powering no matter how much you smothered it all over your Greek salad!

One interesting aspect (and possibly a clue to the recipe) is that it stayed in a well-mixed emulsion state far longer than any typical vinegar and oil type salad dressing might... although they altered the recipe right before they closed their doors and the separation between the ingredients became much more noticeable. The color and taste changed as well. The salad dressing was always refrigerated at the restaurant.

Sadly, the Andros Diner was forced to close its doors permanently over unpaid taxes (LOTS of unpaid taxes!) and we have not found any Greek restaurant that features a similar home-made dressing. Therefore, my lady friend and I are determined to duplicate it at home.

We have gathered several suggested recipes and hints from the Internet, but to no great avail. We are maybe 60% of the way there... but that leaves an awful long way to go and all this experimentation and searching is starting to get expensive!

One other clue to the recipe is that some folks have compared Andros salad dressing to something they call "Greek pizza parlor" salad dressing... although I've personally not found it in any Greek pizza parlor around here (and I have tried). A popular recipe for it on the Internet came up short of what we are seeking.

Do we have any Greek salad dressing experts here on Net Cooking Talk? Any from the Boston area who might remember Andros Diner's salad dressing? There are clearly some key "secret ingredients" that we are missing here... and we need all the help we can get identifying those ingredients.

As always, any and all help and suggestions are most appreciated! Thank you!

Take care,
Tom
 
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A bit OT, but frankly, I love ALL of "Ken's" salad dressings. They're my definite "go to" when I'm not making my own salad dressing. Great stuff.
 
Have you tried contacting the owners and asking them if they could part with the recipe since they are no longer in business? If it was located in Belmont, MA, The owners appear to be John and Annette Manetas. Look them up in the phone book and write or call and ask them.
 
Mama said:
Have you tried contacting the owners and asking them if they could part with the recipe since they are no longer in business? If it was located in Belmont, MA, The owners appear to be John and Annette Manetas. Look them up in the phone book and write or call and ask them.
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I don't think they are still in the Boston area. It appears that they sold off all their personal real estate holdings pre-bankruptcy and left the area after the restaurant went bust and was seized for unpaid taxes, etc. Only street listings I can find for them are for the properties previously sold. Phone numbers (other than for the restaurant) were apparently unlisted.

Rumors are that they returned to Greece, although I believe it is just that: a rumor.

Take care,
Tom
 
BreezyCooking said:
A bit OT, but frankly, I love ALL of "Ken's" salad dressings. They're my definite "go to" when I'm not making my own salad dressing. Great stuff.
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Funny, but I wish that Ken's salad dressings had contracted with the Manetas family at some point to produce a bottled supermarket version of their famous Greek restaurant salad dressing.

I suppose it's too late for that now. :)

Take care,
Tom
 
Gramps, I would love to help you with this, but I don't know anything about either the diner or the dressing.

However, adding feta to the Ken's dressing you pictured sounds delicious to me!

Lee
 
I wish I could help. I have spent years trying to copy and perfect the salad dressing from my favorite Greek restaurant. It has been quite a challenge and I've finally come about as close as I'm going to get. I do know the reddish color is finely chopped/crushed sun dried tomatoes. I don't measure but here is what I have come up with.

Olive oil, red wine vinegar, minced garlic, tiny bit of minced onion, oregano, a pinch of mint, pinch of sugar, pinch of salt, sun dried tomato

The last time I made it, I put in a healthy dose of umani paste and it really worked.

Good luck with it.:)
 
QSis said:
Gramps, I would love to help you with this, but I don't know anything about either the diner or the dressing.

However, adding feta to the Ken's dressing you pictured sounds delicious to me!

Lee
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Yeah, it has worked out reasonably well as a substitute for the real deal... but it's still just a little too tart for my taste. I put some sugar in the last batch although honey might have done better. We'll try that next time. Some say to add more olive oil if it is too tart, but that's not going to get us to where we want to be. That's going in the wrong direction color and texture-wise.

Take care,
Tom
 
Bells said:
I wish I could help. I have spent years trying to copy and perfect the salad dressing from my favorite Greek restaurant. It has been quite a challenge and I've finally come about as close as I'm going to get. I do know the reddish color is finely chopped/crushed sun dried tomatoes. I don't measure but here is what I have come up with.

Olive oil, red wine vinegar, minced garlic, tiny bit of minced onion, oregano, a pinch of mint, pinch of sugar, pinch of salt, sun dried tomato

The last time I made it, I put in a healthy dose of umani paste and it really worked.

Good luck with it.:)
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Thanks very much. Umani paste... very interesting!!! :biggrin:

You're on the right track... but don't forget the feta! :mrgreen:

We considered sun dried tomatoes as another possible source of the pink color and smooth emulsion consistency... but here is our thought: Would a small restaurant in seemingly endless financial trouble use an ingredient as expensive as sun dried tomatoes in their salad dressing? :glare: We thought long and hard on that point... and we both agreed that it was not likely. Plus, there is no indication of a sun dried tomato taste in their salad dressing (although that does not mean that it's not there!).

In fact, that is another key point in this mystery. Whatever ingredients were used, it is very likely that they were not ultra-gourmet or ultra-expensive or even close. Perhaps we are looking at this all wrong, but we guess that they made this stuff by the barrel. Whatever the key ingredients were, we're guessing that they were very "cost effective"! :yum:

Take care,
Tom
 
Gramps said:
Thanks very much. Umani paste... very interesting!!! :biggrin:

You're on the right track... but don't forget the feta! :mrgreen:

We considered sun dried tomatoes as another possible source of the pink color and smooth emulsion consistency... but here is our thought: Would a small restaurant in seemingly endless financial trouble use an ingredient as expensive as sun dried tomatoes in their salad dressing? :glare: We thought long and hard on that point... and we both agreed that it was not likely. Plus, there is no indication of a sun dried tomato taste in their salad dressing (although that does not mean that it's not there!).

In fact, that is another key point in this mystery. Whatever ingredients were used, it is very likely that they were not ultra-gourmet or ultra-expensive or even close. Perhaps we are looking at this all wrong, but we guess that they made this stuff by the barrel. Whatever the key ingredients were, we're guessing that they were very "cost effective"! :yum:

Take care,
Tom
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Good points. My second guess would be minced red bell pepper. I'm glad I'm not the only one that goes crazy trying to figure out certain recipes. Know any good chemists?

I'm finding this umani paste very interesting and I'm having fun experimenting with it.

I'd never forget the feta...I'm one that puts the feta on top of the salad.:smile:
 
Bells said:
Good points. My second guess would be minced red bell pepper. I'm glad I'm not the only one that goes crazy trying to figure out certain recipes. Know any good chemists?

I'm finding this umani paste very interesting and I'm having fun experimenting with it.

I'd never forget the feta...I'm one that puts the feta on top of the salad.:smile:
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Entirely possible on the red bell pepper. Some folks are saying it's either that or tomato or both.

The Ken's dressing (above) uses red dye to enhance the color. Might a small restaurant do that as well? I'd have to say probably not.

The red wine vinegar itself adds some red to the mix, but I don't think it's enough to get to the pink color of the original (even after the feta is added and partially dissolves).

And yes, we find ourselves in this "amateur chemists" position fairly often... trying to figure out what ingredients were used in a restaurant dish so that we can duplicate the taste ourselves at home! :)

Take care,
Tom
 
Gramps said:
Entirely possible on the red bell pepper. Some folks are saying it's either that or tomato or both.

The Ken's dressing (above) uses red dye to enhance the color. Might a small restaurant do that as well? I'd have to say probably not.

The red wine vinegar itself adds some red to the mix, but I don't think it's enough to get to the pink color of the original (even after the feta is added and partially dissolves).

And yes, we find ourselves in this "amateur chemists" position fairly often... trying to figure out what ingredients were used in a restaurant dish so that we can duplicate the taste ourselves at home! :)

Take care,
Tom
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I think not on the food coloring too. I reluctantly co-owned an eatery a few years ago and food coloring is frowned upon. Natural is where it's at.

I wonder if raspberry red wine vinegar was used. Some brands give an unusual color. I have also used it and it changes the flavour slightly.

Please excuse me while I go make a big Greek salad. Maybe a new idea will pop into my head.

You take care too.:)
 
I wonder if these folks might be of help? Andros Diner Fairfield, CT With them having a restaurant by the same name they may know the owners of the other restaurant or have an idea about what might be in the dressing. It can't hurt to ask.
 
Bells said:
I think not on the food coloring too. I reluctantly co-owned an eatery a few years ago and food coloring is frowned upon. Natural is where it's at.

I wonder if raspberry red wine vinegar was used. Some brands give an unusual color. I have also used it and it changes the flavour slightly.

Please excuse me while I go make a big Greek salad. Maybe a new idea will pop into my head.

You take care too.:)
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The raspberry wine vinegar idea is probably worth trying. We'll add that to our list of possible ingredients. :)

Mama said:
I wonder if these folks might be of help? Andros Diner Fairfield, CT With them having a restaurant by the same name they may know the owners of the other restaurant or have an idea about what might be in the dressing. It can't hurt to ask.
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Interesting given that they are only 3 hours away... but I checked them out pretty thoroughly online and there is not one comment or mention anywhere about their salad dressing. Sounds more like they are an all-purpose American 24/7 diner... known for just about everything else except their salad dressing. ;)

Could be that the owner has heard or read of the similarly named scofflaw diner to the North, but I'll bet the hired help answering the phone probably wouldn't. More likely, I'd have better luck contacting the owners or managers of other Greek restaurants right in close around Boston... who may at one time actually tried this salad dressing.

Take care,
Tom
 
How about a dark red dry wine and/or a pinch of ketchup for that little hint of tomato someone mentioned. Also ketchup has other spices and such in it that may have given the salad dressing that secret flavor they wanted so someone would be not be able to duplicate it.
 
lilbopeep said:
How about a dark red dry wine and/or a pinch of ketchup for that little hint of tomato someone mentioned. Also ketchup has other spices and such in it that may have given the salad dressing that secret flavor they wanted so someone would be not be able to duplicate it.
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Do you actually mean a dark red dry wine? Or a dark red dry wine vinegar?

Others have suggested ketchup as a possible source of the pink color (in combo with the feta) and relative sweetness, but experimentation so far has not proven that out. The ketchup seems to thicken it up too much and takes out the translucent appearance, even in small quantities.

Tomato certainly may be in there, but more likely obtained from fresh tomatoes or a little tomato juice rather than ketchup.

Take care,
Tom
 
Bells said:
I googled this morning and found this. Beet powder. Isn't that something? I actually laughed out loud. You never know what processors will add. I have often put cooked beets in salad but I never would have considered beet powder. I imagine it is just added for color.

http://www.kensfoods.com/kf/product...ductId=39&productCategoryId=&productFlavorId=
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Good catch! I hadn't noticed that on the label. Son of a gun! Guess I need to buy even stronger reading glasses! :yum: Thanks for pointing that out! :)

And here I have been trying to buy "beet juice" instead (per one or two of the recommended online recipes). No success at all in finding it. We were just getting prepared to make some "home-made" beet juice to add to our experimentation. Now maybe I should try to find that beet powder first... yes? :wink:

Take care,
Tom
 
Gramps said:
Good catch! I hadn't noticed that on the label. Son of a gun! Guess I need to buy even stronger reading glasses! :yum: Thanks for pointing that out! :)

And here I have been trying to buy "beet juice" instead (per one or two of the recommended online recipes). No success at all in finding it. We were just getting prepared to make some "home-made" beet juice to add to our experimentation. Now maybe I should try to find that beet powder first... yes? :wink:

Take care,
Tom
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I can't think of a place that I've seen it but then again, I've never looked for it. Online might be the easiest place to get it. Good luck and let me know how you do.
 
Bells said:
I can't think of a place that I've seen it but then again, I've never looked for it. Online might be the easiest place to get it. Good luck and let me know how you do.
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Now I need to go back to all those places that didn't have beet juice and ask if them if they have beet powder! :yum:

Thanks again for pointing that out! :chef:

Take care,
Tom
 
Gramps said:
Now I need to go back to all those places that didn't have beet juice and ask if them if they have beet powder! :yum:

Thanks again for pointing that out! :chef:

Take care,
Tom
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LOL...That should be fun. Tell them you are a mad food scientist.

Just have fun with it. Anytime you feel like hashing ingredients out, just let me know. I always did love a good mystery.

Take care,
Bells
 
lilbopeep said:
How about a dark red dry wine and/or a pinch of ketchup for that little hint of tomato someone mentioned. Also ketchup has other spices and such in it that may have given the salad dressing that secret flavor they wanted so someone would be not be able to duplicate it.
Click to expand...

Gramps said:
Others have suggested ketchup as a possible source of the pink color (in combo with the feta) and relative sweetness, but experimentation so far has not proven that out. The ketchup seems to thicken it up too much and takes out the translucent appearance, even in small quantities.
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Well lilbopeep, it looks like I was wrong and that you were right after all!!! :applause::applause::applause: :respect:

My lady friend was finally able to find an "inside connection" to the former restaurant and ketchup was revealed to be one of the "top secret ingredients" in the recipe. Son of a gun!!! :mrgreen:

We were both floored by this news since our experimentation to date had seemed to indicate that we were going in the wrong direction. We suspected that tomatoes were in there... but tomato ketchup? It seemed to be all wrong texture and appearance-wise. Perhaps we were simply putting in too much? :whistling:

Hope this isn't a false lead. My lady friend insists that she got this information from a highly reliable source... although she has been known to exaggerate. :yum:

No complete recipe yet... but supposedly the "reliable source" has other "reliable sources" that might be willing to reveal the entire recipe! :clap:

Take care,
Tom
 
Gramps said:
Well lilbopeep, it looks like I was wrong and that you were right after all!!! :applause::applause::applause: :respect:

My lady friend was finally able to find an "inside connection" to the former restaurant and ketchup was revealed to be one of the "top secret ingredients" in the recipe. Son of a gun!!! :mrgreen:

We were both floored by this news since our experimentation to date had seemed to indicate that we were going in the wrong direction. We suspected that tomatoes were in there... but tomato ketchup? It seemed to be all wrong texture and appearance-wise. Perhaps we were simply putting in too much? :whistling:

Hope this isn't a false lead. My lady friend insists that she got this information from a highly reliable source... although she has been known to exaggerate. :yum:

No complete recipe yet... but supposedly the "reliable source" has other "reliable sources" that might be willing to reveal the entire recipe! :clap:

Take care,
Tom
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A tiny pinch of ketchup adds so much flavor and leaves that "what is that flavor, I can't quite place it" subtle hint of something.

Good luck.
 
lilbopeep said:
A tiny pinch of ketchup adds so much flavor and leaves that "what is that flavor, I can't quite place it" subtle hint of something.

Good luck.
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Been experimenting and eating Greek salads all morning. :bonk: I'm slowly coming around to accepting that ketchup is the mysterious "secret ingredient" even if I'm still coming up a little short of my goal of duplicating the Andros salad dressing exactly. Perhaps they used a different ketchup than the Heinz that I am using? Or maybe it's different base ingredients or another missing "secret ingredient" or two?

I'm also beginning to realize that all the other components of an Andros Greek salad need to be there for a fair taste test. That's going to take a bit more work. :cooking:

Looks like the experimentation is going to continue for a while longer... but I think I'm on the right track now! :chef:

Take care,
Tom
 
Gramps said:
Been experimenting and eating Greek salads all morning. :bonk: I'm slowly coming around to accepting that ketchup is the mysterious "secret ingredient" even if I'm still coming up a little short of my goal of duplicating the Andros salad dressing exactly. Perhaps they used a different ketchup than the Heinz that I am using? Or maybe it's different base ingredients or another missing "secret ingredient" or two?

I'm also beginning to realize that all the other components of an Andros Greek salad need to be there for a fair taste test. That's going to take a bit more work. :cooking:

Looks like the experimentation is going to continue for a while longer... but I think I'm on the right track now! :chef:

Take care,
Tom
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Try adding a splash only of a dry red wine (not vinegar just dry red wine) to the rest of the dressing ingredients.
 
It's a long shot, but try putting a request for the recipe on the local Craigslist
for the area.

I was in a similar situation, trying to duplicate a favorite restaurant's recipes.
The place had closed years ago, and I just couldn't quite get it right.
On a lark I posted a request on Craigslist, and the former head cook sold
me the recipes! (With the owner's permission and a promise from me not
to disclose till the owner passed away.)
 
Kimchee said:
It's a long shot, but try putting a request for the recipe on the local Craigslist
for the area.

I was in a similar situation, trying to duplicate a favorite restaurant's recipes.
The place had closed years ago, and I just couldn't quite get it right.
On a lark I posted a request on Craigslist, and the former head cook sold
me the recipes! (With the owner's permission and a promise from me not
to disclose till the owner passed away.)
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Good story! I probably should have thought of that weeks or months ago. :)

I had asked my lady friend about posting to another local restaurant/recipe/cooking site (which I probably shouldn't mention here), but she was skeptical after the other recipe suggestions found on-line didn't seem to help us very much. She thought I should try here next since you folks have all been so friendly and helpful in the past. :heart:

I think we're on the right track now. By last night, I was getting awfully, awfully darn close. Any adjustments from here on out are probably going to be in the brands and quantities (or ratios) of the individual salad dressing ingredients... and like I said above: The salad ingredients themselves are going to be a very key factor in any further fine tuning. :chef:

Take care,
Tom
 
I just came upon this thread while looking for anyone who had information about that specific dressing! Do you mind sharing what you have figured out so far? Thanks!
 
noprotocol said:
I just came upon this thread while looking for anyone who had information about that specific dressing! Do you mind sharing what you have figured out so far? Thanks!
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Very sorry to have taken so long to get back to you. We were on vacation earlier this month and then I ran into some nasty computer problems upon my return.

The thread itself really tells the whole story. We never did duplicate the Andros recipe 100%, but we came awfully darn close. :chef:

We started with Ken's Lite Red Wine Vinegar & Olive Oil salad dressing: (http://www.kensfoods.com/proddetail.php?id=39) due to its very similar color and taste (the closest we could find in all of our research). It turned out to be a very good starting point. Then we added a small amount of ketchup per my lady friend's supposed "secret contact"! Then, of course, we added the Feta cheese directly into the salad dressing mix and shook it up well. The bigger the batch, the better... and refrigerate for a while before using for the most authentic taste and texture. :readytoeat:

Several important points:

1) The amount of ketchup to add takes some experimentation. Start small and increase according to your own preference. If you get to the point where you can identify the ketchup by taste, you have probably gone too far... so dilute a bit with more of the Ken's salad dressing. :chef:

2) Didn't have that problem with the Feta (the more the merrier), but the brand and type of Feta did make quite a difference. Don't get too overly fancy here. We use a fairly basic dry, crumbled, supermarket Feta cheese. Softer, moister Feta cheeses did not do as well in the dressing. :biggrin:

3) Further attempts to improve upon this very basic recipe really didn't help us much... and my lady friend's supposed "secret contact" never disclosed any other useful hints (like the actual ingredient brands used). But like I stated in the thread, I believe you need to think like a high volume restauranteur here and not get overly costly or crazy fancy with your ingredients. Remember, they made and sold this stuff by the barrel during the Andros restaurant's best days. :wink:

4) Lastly, the salad dressing works best (i.e., is most authentic tasting) when you build the salad itself like Andros used to do. This is not a salad dressing for small, stingy, limp or wimpy salads. This is a salad dressing for robust, fresh, crisp, fully-loaded Greek salads with lots of extra Feta cheese thrown in! Also helps if you happen to be doing chicken or steak shish kabobs in the mix. Damn!!! I am getting hungry again!!! :laugh:

Take care,
Tom
 
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