It's not nice to rankle bikers.

The Tourist

Banned
I'd like to rant a bit today. Sorry, no jokes. However, the issue is probably one that has happened to you, or around you. In a real sense, it deals with 'sweat equity.'

I have a love/hate relationship with forums, I got burned early. I was a member of a self-defense forum for almost two years before I found out that the owner was a fraud. He was investigated by another forum that sought out shills, and exposed him.

This condition is so prevalent that a one knife forum member flew up from Florida to Wisconsin just to see if I really was a professional tinker and Harley rider. Part of me was ticked, but an inner part just shrugged.

Forums are no longer the venue of geeks. There are advertising dollars to be made. Some newspapers are now folding up because an ever increasing number of people get their info from the 'net.

For the second time within two months I've seen a disappointing trend. It is the idea that forum members are either a valuable commodity to a forum, or they are treated like "employees."

In the first case, I simply chalked off the experience to a clumsy or egocentric moderator. In other words, an errand boy sent by the forum owner who ultimately acted beyond his pay-grade. Within days he ticked off so many forum regulars that I wrote him a PM and told him to ban me. Other hobbyists informed me that the place went so dead that this moderator had to post a stickie begging people to come back.

A few days ago I received another PM from a mod. Obviously this clueless errand boy doesn't check the wind much.

A (successful) forum is built in the manner that the Amish build a new barn. The good craftsmen come because they care. They use their talents to contribute to a job or ideal in which they believe.

Most dissatisfied hobbyists don't pitch a fit and stomp out as they are often depicted. That's one guy in ten thousand. The forum owners seem to be blinded to the issue that "www" means 'world wide.' Tens of thousands of people lurk in their forum and buy their products.

Most simply quit coming by. They quit posting for a day, then two days, and finally a month has passed. They forget the sign-on address, or their password, or they just don't care anymore. Every few months I clean out my 'favorites' sections. I have enties there I don't even remember adding.

(To dramatize this point, I just scanned my favorites list and deleted seven addresses. Four of them were entires on places I never visit, three of them were 'forgotten' pages I zeroed just to make room.)

So I did what most of you do when introduced to an overzealous mod. I ignored him. To be fair, I ignore most authority figures. Most are 'figures' with no authority--and you can even buy FBI credentials on the 'net. If a guy really has power, he doesn't need a trumpet.

But the old buggaboo came back when I realized something about this new mod. I don't work for him or anyone, not in over seven years. My continued involvement with any forum builds the value of that entity. In a very real sense I am a consumer with a disposable income that shops in his store.

More to the point, in most of these cases I am twice the age of the mod. There's an old Sicilian adage that "you don't have to teach your Grandma how to suck eggs." And it applies here.

I want to be treated better. In fact, I insist on it.
 
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Doc

Administrator
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Cheers Chico! I think we all want treated better. This very forum was formed and started because a member here was treated very badly by some other forum.
You are right that forums and the forum owner benefit from posts and posters. The more posts you get the stronger your forum gets. The bigger the forum, the more google hits and other folks stop by to look over what you've done. It's all good.

I've also been on forums where the owner and mods were 1/2 my age. Some have done extremely well, others have made the same mod'ing mistakes over and over. As you know I run 5 different forums. From your posts I'd guess I'm just a few years younger than you. A baby boomer for sure. All my forums mods would have an average age of 50 something. That does help. I've found some really good mods who donate their time to help the forums stay fun and grow all at the same time. They're motivation is the same as mine, the enjoyment they get from interacting on the forums.
As for those who put forth a fake front to the forum viewers ...they will soon find out it's harder than you might think. We get new users who come on strong at first and then fade away. I suspect they were not telling the truth and found it hard to keep up the charade ...or they were bored with us. :confused: But anyone who sticks around for a few months and gets to know some of the other members will find that they'll make some friends. Those who fake their ID only hurt themselves because they have to keep people pushed away so they don't learn to much about them ...and they'll get confused in their own lies. It takes away all the fun, but they are only cheating themselves.
I'll close saying I understand where you are coming from Chico, and I'm glad you found my forums. :thumb: I hope you stick around for a long long time. :D :beer:
 

The Tourist

Banned
Thanks, Doc. I think you see the picture.

I run my useage of forums the way I run opinion on bike shops.

I always buy a few cases of beer and Mountain Dew for the mechanics. Even with A/C, they are locked in an environment of scalding engines and precious little ventilation. Even at Capital City Harley, a new facility, there is a temperature change in the engine bays. And I used to be a Harley mechanic, I know of whence I speak.

In the same vein, I'm still a client. The moment that relationship is damaged is the day I no longer wear black T-shirts aboard my spanking new Yamaha V-Max.

(My wife did that once. She felt taken for granted on her lease of a Ford Explorer. The sales guy had all of the new paperwork ready to go on a lease for the replacement model. She stuck her head in the door, told the guy what she thought and flipped him the keys to the older SUV. Yeah, I had to cart her around for a few months--but their demeanor changed dramatically when I took her back. They have been very attentive ever since.)

There's the old joke "I didn't work my way to the top of the food chain to eat a salad."

I agree. I've spent just short of four decades on the road and I am one of a handful of caucasian sharpeners who use the Japanese traditions.

If a mod sends me an PM and I think there's the slightest strain of disrespect, I'll find his competition and I'll go make money for him. In fact, that's pretty much the story on how I landed here.
 

The Tourist

Banned
Here's an ironic update.

I just signed onto another forum--where I'm relatively new--and I got a PM from a Super Mod.

Usual BS. "Oh, Chico, you're such a handsome man, such an addition a to the discussions. But we might put you on 'moderation.' Welcome to the team."

Why is it that these frakken idiots think they can get away with these antics in addressing an adult in a manner they would never even dare to try in a tavern? You can about guess my response.

I've always told the truth (mostly, I use tact and a touch of storytelling) in my responses to issues on politics, the proper care for knives, my spirituality and my rebuttals.

To do otherwise for the benefit of a mod's ego would make me a liar.

Bandwidth bravado. Any insipid rhetoric about the veracity of my prose should be delivered in person. If you don't have the cojones for that, that keep your yap shut.
 

Doc

Administrator
Staff member
Gold Site Supporter
Chico,
Forums Forums is also my forum, just like this one and Net Car Stop ...and NetTractor Talk. You will see many of the same people on all these forums. Forums Forums is by far the largest and most active.
I've done a bad job of letting all users know WHO the mods are on each forum. Each mod can wear the Super Mod title if they choose. Many choose not to. So that makes it hard to know who is and isn't a mod. The entry page on Forums Forums (www.forumsforums.com) lists the mods, but a couple more have been added since it was last updated. I plan to fix that later tonight or tomorrow morning. Sorry for any confusion this might have caused you and other new members.
 

The Tourist

Banned
Doc, it's not you or any of the organizations you've created.

I'm commenting on the substandard mentality of the people I meet on forums in general. After all, you had nothing to do with the dust-up on KF. Mericful heavens, I was told by an egocentric mod that the professional occupation earning real money with which I pay the rent "does not exist."

I also had to suffer the indignity--and a fee from my lawyer--to curtail a case of libel.

And all for the same reason.

There exists a sliver of society who feel they can flame and blame and no one (including mods) will ever have to pay the piper.

Now here's an odd piece of info that might astound some people, and I hate to let the cat out of the bag. Bikers get angry.

Now I realize that might seem surprising.

What happened, Doc, was that the main focus of my displeasure simply happened in your tavern. No more no less.

Doc, you're not responsible for every idiot that wastes oxygen. I even posted that you had been friendly and lenient--for all to see.

I figure it this way. You are trying to build a series of worthwhile forums, and that attracks trolls and flamers. That condition will always be with us. Others believe in the ideology of "don't feed the trolls." That doesn't work if you're dealing with a power-mad mod.

I simply started to deal with people on forums like I do in real life.

If you're a nice guy, you'll never have a problem with me. If you're a jerk, I'll publish your antics and deliberate falsehoods for all to see.

That breaks no rules in any forum. And truth be told, older adults are tired of tripping over impolite members.
 

Calicolady

New member
I just read thru this, and again I'm happy that one more veteran than I led me here.
Thanks, sattie.
Thanks, Doc.
I think many of us will be quite comfortable here.
 

The Tourist

Banned
I think many of us will be quite comfortable here.

Oh, no question about it! I like the forums that Doc has created for us!

Imagine the tens of thousands of people who use these same forums. All tolled, I'l bet that I have posted 1,500 times on Doc's forums.

I only have nine people on ignore.

Think about that. All of those thousands, and only nine losers. I wish my neighborhood had those same odds...
 
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