Born Again American

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The Tourist

Banned
This stuff always confuses me. If you're "born again," it must mean you were gone somewhere else for a while.

For example, most folks in Wisconsin know who Brett Favre is. They proudly wear his number "4" jersey.

I'll bet you not one in a hundred know who Phil Bengston is. Oh, they know Lombardi and Starr. Where were they?

I would make the same analogy here. Where were these Americans?

On the bottom right front of my colors is the stars and stripes rendition of HD's "Number One" patch. It's a small thing now, no biggee.

Oh, did I ever tell you I wore it proudly in 1969--in Madison--at the UW--during a war riot...

Where were these "born again Americans"?

At the start of this "new age," over 92% of the country supported George W. Bush, even Hillary Clinton. When things got a little tough, the same people derided him.

You pick a side. You support it. Rain or shine.
 

PieSusan

Tortes Are Us
Super Site Supporter
I have always been a committed American citizen who votes and has gotten involved politically. I don't need to become a born again anything.

However, those who wish to become involved and do their civic duty, I support you whole-heartedly and commend you for making the choice to become active. I still don't think that makes you born again. lol
 

MexicoKaren

Joyfully Retired
Super Site Supporter
I watched the video, buzz, and I found it very inspiring. One of the reasons we moved to Mexico is that we had lost faith in the American political system, and recent changes have not convinced us to move back, but we are encouraged.

I am probably opening a HUGE can of worms here, but one line in the song troubles me, e.g., "My Bible and my Bill of Rights..." Since the very first item in the Bill of Rights is as follows:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It seems to me that our former leaders' posture of exclusivity and insistence on "Christian" values (including lying, cheating and stealing?) helped to tear our nation apart, not encourage us to work together. So the inclusion of the word "Bible" makes me a little uneasy. Can anyone else understand this?

Hope I haven't offended anyone.....is this against the rules?

Edited to add: We both remain committed participants in the American political process and in addition to voting in the last election, we also contributed to political campaigns. Regardless of where anyone lives, the success and well-being of the USA remains important.
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
Hope I haven't offended anyone.....is this against the rules?

Nope. It's individual bashing that starts trouble.

We all interpret the video differently and I'm sure the intention was not to offend, rather show dissatisfaction and the desire to make things better both for individuals and for the country in general. We're in big trouble but we will survive.
 

The Tourist

Banned
One of the reasons we moved to Mexico is that we had lost faith in the American political system.

And it makes good sense, I think more should do that very thing.

It's tough being an American. Right now I have to watch an American President guide himself with Karl Marx instead of homegrown ideals of work and prosperity.

But your comment rings true for me. Most of the immigrants who come here voice the same concerns. "This country is better than where we come from." They shed their old country and then build a 'Little Havana' here. Or 3,000 American boys die on Omaha Beach for a country already owned by an "ally."

That mentality will never build a stronger America. We simply become a lunch line in a safe haven.

Here's my concern. If this country only mouths the things people want to hear it becomes a silly spectacle of bread and circuses. I need people beside me who won't bolt and run. Now, you might deride me when my boys stand shoulder to shoulder in one tsunami of black leather, but you don't mess with them. I want that for America.

I was born, not born again.

BTW, without a google, do you know who Phil Bengston is?
 

PieSusan

Tortes Are Us
Super Site Supporter
I watched the video, buzz, and I found it very inspiring. One of the reasons we moved to Mexico is that we had lost faith in the American political system, and recent changes have not convinced us to move back, but we are encouraged.

I am probably opening a HUGE can of worms here, but one line in the song troubles me, e.g., "My Bible and my Bill of Rights..." Since the very first item in the Bill of Rights is as follows:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It seems to me that our former leaders' posture of exclusivity and insistence on "Christian" values (including lying, cheating and stealing?) helped to tear our nation apart, not encourage us to work together. So the inclusion of the word "Bible" makes me a little uneasy. Can anyone else understand this?

Hope I haven't offended anyone.....is this against the rules?

Edited to add: We both remain committed participants in the American political process and in addition to voting in the last election, we also contributed to political campaigns. Regardless of where anyone lives, the success and well-being of the USA remains important.

I agree with everything you said, Karen. I am very uncomfortable even when they say "Judeo-Christian" values. I am all for participating in government and doing one's civic duty and I really don't care which side one prefers. That is a personal choice and philosophy. The buggers that get me are the ones who complain but refuse to get off their asses and vote and make a difference. I have worked on local political campaigns. I love working behind the scenes.
 

BamsBBQ

Ni pedo
Site Supporter
hey you all could move to canada and eat poutine..EH...lol:letitsnow:

America has the right to bear arms...Canada has the right to bear breasts....:yum::weneedpics_smi:
 

JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
It's tough being an American. Right now I have to watch an American President guide himself with Karl Marx instead of homegrown ideals of work and prosperity.

...and that makes me sick to my stomach. It's a slap in the faces of the great men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice so this country could be great.
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
...and that makes me sick to my stomach. It's a slap in the faces of the great men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice so this country could be great.

I played guitar in a college rock band in Madison. After parties we'd stay up late, get really faced, sing kumbaya with the girls from Victoria House next door.... After graduation I went to Marine Corps Officers School. My life changed in a hurry. :shock: If nothing else, I learned to take care of myself.
 

MexicoKaren

Joyfully Retired
Super Site Supporter
One of the beauties of this site is that we may have differing political ideas and philosophies, but we are free to express them without personal attack. I respect and applaud our differences. That's what the Bill of Rights is all about. And lest we forget, we are all united by one commonality: the love of FOOD and preparing it! For exapmple, I have a suspicion that Joe V and I voted for different presidential candidates, but I sure do LOVE the way that guy makes bread, as well as the way he shares it with others and uses that talent/skill to make his community a better place!
 

Maverick2272

Stewed Monkey
Super Site Supporter
I played guitar in a college rock band in Madison. After parties we'd stay up late, get really faced, sing kumbaya with the girls from Victoria House next door.... After graduation I went to Marine Corps Officers School. My life changed in a hurry. :shock: If nothing else, I learned to take care of myself.

Boot camp has a tendency to do that! LOL. My dad says it was quit the life changing experience. He went to San Diego, he said Paris Island was even worse!
 

JoeV

Dough Boy
Site Supporter
I played guitar in a college rock band in Madison. After parties we'd stay up late, get really faced, sing kumbaya with the girls from Victoria House next door.... After graduation I went to Marine Corps Officers School. My life changed in a hurry. :shock: If nothing else, I learned to take care of myself.

I was in the USAF 69-73. We learned to survive during that era, and are having to use those skills again today when some people are trying to dismantle all that we have worked for. What in God's name can make them so bitter, greedy and stupid? We need more voices for the things that we have always held as being right and true, not these lies and deceit. As for me and mine, we will hold fast to our bibles and our guns, both of which they are trying to take away. America will rise up again as she always has, against the forces of evil, internal or external.

Time to go back to work.
 

Maverick2272

Stewed Monkey
Super Site Supporter
One of the beauties of this site is that we may have differing political ideas and philosophies, but we are free to express them without personal attack. I respect and applaud our differences. That's what the Bill of Rights is all about. And lest we forget, we are all united by one commonality: the love of FOOD and preparing it! For exapmple, I have a suspicion that Joe V and I voted for different presidential candidates, but I sure do LOVE the way that guy makes bread, as well as the way he shares it with others and uses that talent/skill to make his community a better place!

"One nation, under Food, edible, with spices and flavorings for all."
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
Boot camp has a tendency to do that! LOL. My dad says it was quit the life changing experience. He went to San Diego, he said Paris Island was even worse!

And Quantico makes them both look like kindergarten. The boot camps harass and break down only to rebuild into esprit de corps. The officers have to lead and be tougher than their men so the school is highly physical. Out of a class of about 220, around 40, if I remember correctly, were ECPs (Enlisted Commissioning Program). They all attested that there was no comparison between the two programs save for the uniform.
 

The Tourist

Banned
when some people are trying to dismantle all that we have worked for. What in God's name can make them so bitter, greedy and stupid?

I was never a soldier, but I worked on a loading dock to pay for college and bikes. In other words, those things were "mine." And I think that's the issue.

Many/most of my college friends either took summer school classes or went to Europe. That was fashionable in that period.

So when it came to denouncing college or work or American values it was quite easy to do so. They had no investment in the ideals.

Now granted, the boys I saw returning from war looked very hangdog. And many of them changed opinion on the war and military service.

But just about all of them told me they were glad to be home and it was a damn site better than a vill that smelled like pig dung.

Over the fullness of time the thing that rose to the service and became important was not any singular niggling aspect of the conflict itself. Most of the time these guys say about the same thing:

"That experience took the stupid grin off my face and made me responsible."
 

joec

New member
Gold Site Supporter
I agree with Karen in her opinion which I also happen to share. I get very uncomfortable with religion in any form as it does have a tendency to generate the my way or the highway attitude which as bleed into our politics also.

I belong to no political parties as my beliefs depend solely on what the subject we might be discussing at any given moment and in what context.

I am hopeful that we as a nation can get our act together but also have serious doubts when I listen to the 2 extremes in this country. Like the old saying goes their is two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
 

Maverick2272

Stewed Monkey
Super Site Supporter
And Quantico makes them both look like kindergarten. The boot camps harass and break down only to rebuild into esprit de corps. The officers have to lead and be tougher than their men so the school is highly physical. Out of a class of about 220, around 40, if I remember correctly, were ECPs (Enlisted Commissioning Program). They all attested that there was no comparison between the two programs save for the uniform.

I remember him talking about Quantico. He did not share much about his experiences during his two tours in Vietnam. I only found out some about it by going thru his footlocker he had kept. He had a bunch of medals including a silver and bronze star along with all the campaign ribbons. Three purple hearts as well.
I do know he was at Ke San, and he talked some about how the cargo planes had to come in, drop their loads and take off without stopping. Also peeing on the mortars to keep em going.
 

MexicoKaren

Joyfully Retired
Super Site Supporter
The war in Vietnam, for better or worse, defined my generation. Mav, your dad was a brave guy. I have many friends and family members (including DH) who served in SE Asia, and some who didn't make it back. Thanks for sharing this with us.
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
I remember him talking about Quantico. He did not share much about his experiences during his two tours in Vietnam. I only found out some about it by going thru his footlocker he had kept. He had a bunch of medals including a silver and bronze star along with all the campaign ribbons. Three purple hearts as well.
I do know he was at Ke San, and he talked some about how the cargo planes had to come in, drop their loads and take off without stopping. Also peeing on the mortars to keep em going.

Bless your father. Silver Star? Wow!!!

My cousin Billy was in the 3rd Marines and was trapped on one of the Khe Sanh hilltops for weeks. He came back a basket case and remains so to this day. The Tet Offensive was a couple years before my time in Da Nang. Just as well. When I got off active duty in '73 I joined a reserve unit at NAS Glenview, Il where I flew the Marine C-130s that provided resupply at Khe Sanh. There were scads of bullet hole patches on every plane. Tet was a brutal time in history.
 

PieSusan

Tortes Are Us
Super Site Supporter
I agree with Karen in her opinion which I also happen to share. I get very uncomfortable with religion in any form as it does have a tendency to generate the my way or the highway attitude which as bleed into our politics also.

I belong to no political parties as my beliefs depend solely on what the subject we might be discussing at any given moment and in what context.

I am hopeful that we as a nation can get our act together but also have serious doubts when I listen to the 2 extremes in this country. Like the old saying goes their is two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I am a GDI, too and damn proud of it. I vote issues and policies and not parties. I wish more people would do the same. We have a two party system that is divisive and encourages the kind of political flame wars that I see on boards. We are all Americans and we all want what is best for our country. My father fought in WWII in the Battle of the Bulge and helped to liberate the camps in Germany. I love my country but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement.
 

joec

New member
Gold Site Supporter
I wasn't in the military service but was in Nam from 69 to 70. I did see action up close. My father was in the 4th Marine division during WWII as a sniper/anti sniper. He enlisted the day Pearl Harbor was attacked and got out at the end of the ware with a bronze star, purple heart with 5 clusters, presidential citation etc. One of the most decorated outfits in WWII with him being 1 of 4 other enlisted men to start and finish alive. His attitudes where pretty much what formed mine in later years, don't buy the BS handed out especially after the way the Veterans Administration treated him in the end. Needless to say he didn't feel real patrotic towards the US Government the older he got.
 

PieSusan

Tortes Are Us
Super Site Supporter
I agree JoeC. We have got to treat our veterans better! They make the ultimate sacrifice and if they are lucky enough to return home, they often get shafted. At least today we know more how to treat post traumatic stress disorder--trouble is we aren't using the knowledge to help enough of the veterans who are in trouble.
 

Mama

Queen of Cornbread
Site Supporter
... but one line in the song troubles me, e.g., "My Bible and my Bill of Rights..." Since the very first item in the Bill of Rights is as follows:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Being from the "Bible Belt", I'm sure you probably already know where I stand on this one. I think a lot of people misunderstand what that first sentence in the Bill of Rights is saying. It was put there to protect the people from the government not the government from the people. Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. This is a fact that cannot be changed. Another fact is that the vast majority of the people in this country are Christians. Christianity did not tear this country appart....it built it.

It seems to me that our former leaders' posture of exclusivity and insistence on "Christian" values (including lying, cheating and stealing?) helped to tear our nation apart, not encourage us to work together. So the inclusion of the word "Bible" makes me a little uneasy. Can anyone else understand this?

These are not Christian values! Just because someone professes to be a Christian...does not make him/her a Christian.

...Hope I haven't offended anyone....

I'm not offended but I totally disagree.
 

MexicoKaren

Joyfully Retired
Super Site Supporter
I could not agree more about the manner in which our veterans are treated. The state office I ran in Oregon worked exclusively with rural communities. It was heart-rending to see these small-town men and women get called up to serve in the reserves or National Guard, leaving a huge hole in the community (sometimes, it would be the ONLY doctor in a community who got called up), lose their jobs and their families' health insurance, then come back to nothing. No job, no insurance, no VA within 300 miles to serve their needs. I am hopeful that the new administration will do a better job of acknowledging their contribution and the price they have paid.
 

joec

New member
Gold Site Supporter
My best friend and partner in our Karate school for 10 years in Texas served in Nam for 2 years. One of his jobs was putting Agent Orange on the helicopters. Well he had 2 daughters that grew up with my kids. His oldest was born before he went to Nam the second after he came home. The second girl is 38 years old and for the last 20 years has suffered from every form of cancer known to man. It is a miracle that she is still alive but it is a never ending fight on her part. No insurance coverage, her father can't have her on his any more since she is married now. So she get her medical paid by donations or her husbands family when necessary. The oldest girl has no problems health wise nor does her father. I've meet many other families with similar problems. My youngest son has all kinds of health problems since returning home from the first gulf war. He had dropped from 190 lbs down to 128 lbs since he got out after it was over. No help for him either from the VA just double talk and denials that it is their problem though he has testable diseases they can find. Perhaps the combined drugs given to them to go there in the first place.
 

MexicoKaren

Joyfully Retired
Super Site Supporter
Mama, I think we agree on more than we disagree on...the US was founded on values like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which are inherently Christian. BUT, Christianity does not have a monopoly on these values; they are found in many religions worldwide.

The framers of the Constitution conspicuously left out any mention of a higher power. The foundation of our legal system, our government, and our nation's common principles was a document that drew its power from "We the People".

Title 11 of The Treaty of Tripoli, passed unanimously in 1797, clearly states, "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

As for our leaders, it is not for me to decide if they are or are not Christians. That is between them and their higher power. But I'm thinkin' they are going to have alot to answer for.....
 

buzzard767

golfaknifeaholic
Gold Site Supporter
After spending a little time doing serious retirement things like practicing golf and making a run to Publix I returned home to this thread. Whoa! :huh: Lots of very bright conversation, but did anyone like the video? I did and that's why I posted it in the first place. :oops:
 
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