Skills?

Derek · Mar 23, 2009

I noticed I have I some skills a seasoned chef has all ready, Does that mean I should probably stay in cooking after my camera class?

For instance I can chop as well as Mario botalli, Cat Cora, Bob Flay, Guy, so on. Also all their little tricks I've learned very very quickly like onion cutting, Take the onion Cut 5 half in slits into the onion turn it around then slice crosswise, repeat until you get your dessiered slices.

Also I've notice my cooking has gotten WAY faster and WAY better. My mom wants me to write a cook book!

VeraBlue · Mar 23, 2009

It's great that your skills are top notch and better that has resulted in better food. You have to ask yourself, not us...if you want to spend all day/all night in a kitchen cooking food for people you don't know. Do you love it enough to start at the bottom of the cooking chain, getting every grunt job there is before you ever get the chance to actually make a decision the chef will entertain? Are you ready to give up holidays, weekends and evenings? Are you prepared to manage a staff of anywhere from 3 to 20, some of whom may not speak fluent english? Are you capable of maintaining the stock/inventory of every item on the menu? Can you nurture relationships with strangers as well as those you see every day? Do you want to turn something you like doing into something you are obligated to do?

I'm not trying to turn you off....but those television celebrities are not practicing the trade any longer. They have given up the craft for celebrité. Nothing is as easy as they make it look....and they can make it look that way because someone else has done all the work for them. You have to keep a lot of balls in the air to be a chef, and frankly, how you cut an onion is the least of them.

JoeV · Mar 23, 2009

My nephew graduated from culinary school and worked his way up the ladder to run the kitchen for a brand new, upscale restaurant. In less than a year he quit the restaurant, went back to school to earn a degree in mechanical engineering, and is happily married today with a lovely wife, new baby son and a job that is over at 5 p.m. with only the occasional Saturday to work. He cooks for pleasure today and thoroughly enjoys it, along with his other interests (which he was unable to enjoy as a chef).

Anyone can become a cook, but to become a chef takes more than knife skills. Your life is not your own as head chef, because you are responsible for all that happens in that kitchen, from the bruise on the tomato that Mrs Jones was not happy with (and now doesn't want to pay for her dinner or the other 3 people's dinner at her table because of it), to Bobby Nobrains not showing up (again) to man his station on the line on Saturday night because he's shacking up Sally Slutty, the hostess with the large mellons and cute pooper who is so good for business (at least the male customer's business) who also was scheduled to work and is now nowhere to be found and doesn't answer her cell phone that she normally stays on when she does show up for work.

If it were not for the people involved in the restaurant business, it might be a pretty good career. Unfortunately, it's people intensive on both sides of the wall. Pursue your dreams while you are young. Who knows, it just may be something you enjoy as a career. Just keep in mind that all that glitters is not gold, and that no good deed will go unpunished.

I almost forgot to ask. Have you ever worked in a restaurant or a commercial kitchen to see how things REALLY are for 8-10 each day? If not, I would encourage you to get a part time job to see firsthand what it's really like. Perhaps than you will see why many of us foodies remain hobbyists and do not take our passion any further. I frequently volunteer at my church and work in the commercial kitchen doing many jobs from prep to pots & pans, to serving and much more. It reinforces for me that I shall remain a hobbyist.

Derek · Mar 23, 2009

VeraBlue said:
It's great that your skills are top notch and better that has resulted in better food. You have to ask yourself, not us...if you want to spend all day/all night in a kitchen cooking food for people you don't know. Do you love it enough to start at the bottom of the cooking chain, getting every grunt job there is before you ever get the chance to actually make a decision the chef will entertain? Are you ready to give up holidays, weekends and evenings? Are you prepared to manage a staff of anywhere from 3 to 20, some of whom may not speak fluent english? Are you capable of maintaining the stock/inventory of every item on the menu? Can you nurture relationships with strangers as well as those you see every day? Do you want to turn something you like doing into something you are obligated to do?

I'm not trying to turn you off....but those television celebrities are not practicing the trade any longer. They have given up the craft for celebrité. Nothing is as easy as they make it look....and they can make it look that way because someone else has done all the work for them. You have to keep a lot of balls in the air to be a chef, and frankly, how you cut an onion is the least of them.

JoeV said:
My nephew graduated from culinary school and worked his way up the ladder to run the kitchen for a brand new, upscale restaurant. In less than a year he quit the restaurant, went back to school to earn a degree in mechanical engineering, and is happily married today with a lovely wife, new baby son and a job that is over at 5 p.m. with only the occasional Saturday to work. He cooks for pleasure today and thoroughly enjoys it, along with his other interests (which he was unable to enjoy as a chef).

Anyone can become a cook, but to become a chef takes more than knife skills. Your life is not your own as head chef, because you are responsible for all that happens in that kitchen, from the bruise on the tomato that Mrs Jones was not happy with (and now doesn't want to pay for her dinner or the other 3 people's dinner at her table because of it), to Bobby Nobrains not showing up (again) to man his station on the line on Saturday night because he's shacking up Sally Slutty, the hostess with the large mellons and cute pooper who is so good for business (at least the male customer's business) who also was scheduled to work and is now nowhere to be found and doesn't answer her cell phone that she normally stays on when she does show up for work.

If it were not for the people involved in the restaurant business, it might be a pretty good career. Unfortunately, it's people intensive on both sides of the wall. Pursue your dreams while you are young. Who knows, it just may be something you enjoy as a career. Just keep in mind that all that glitters is not gold, and that no good deed will go unpunished.

I almost forgot to ask. Have you ever worked in a restaurant or a commercial kitchen to see how things REALLY are for 8-10 each day? If not, I would encourage you to get a part time job to see firsthand what it's really like. Perhaps than you will see why many of us foodies remain hobbyists and do not take our passion any further. I frequently volunteer at my church and work in the commercial kitchen doing many jobs from prep to pots & pans, to serving and much more. It reinforces for me that I shall remain a hobbyist.

I have worked in many restaurants, I've been a dish washer at ground rounder for 5 years, a dish washer at wendies for 10, a pizza maker at a mom pop place for about a month, I just couldn't stand working with the owner of the place I've enevn tried to work it out with him and he pushed my buttons the wrong wy, I've worked at taco bell for a month but hated that I felt greesey every time I took a shower so I quit because of that, I don't mind the grunt work at all and I would rather stay working at a pizza joint or a baker least I didn't feel greasey there.

I'm not sure but at wendys I did every single job, stock, inventory so on. I really like the pizza job I had until they took me off making pizza and had me diliver pizza "THAT was stressfull" making pizza wasn't

Anyways I think I'm going to try my hand at a bakry since I seem to have better luck there and all know how to make killer breads and biscuts.

High Cheese · Mar 23, 2009

Yeah bro, it's not how you cut the onion, it's how you use it.

Knife skills are the basics of basics. You need to start experimenting with ingredients. My crutch is my sauces. Anyone can cook a chicken breast, but the sauce can be the difference between a Chevy and a Bugatti.

If you want to get into it professionally, listen to Vera. Be prepared to eat crow more often than not. If you can't get along with a pizza joint owner you may not be able to handle the high demands of a kitchen. Maybe someone can give you ideas on how to get your foot in the door without spending a ton of money on culinary school. See if you like it, then advance with schooling.

Derek · Mar 23, 2009

High Cheese said:
Yeah bro, it's not how you cut the onion, it's how you use it.

Knife skills are the basics of basics. You need to start experimenting with ingredients. My crutch is my sauces. Anyone can cook a chicken breast, but the sauce can be the difference between a Chevy and a Bugatti.

If you want to get into it professionally, listen to Vera. Be prepared to eat crow more often than not. If you can't get along with a pizza joint owner you may not be able to handle the high demands of a kitchen. Maybe someone can give you ideas on how to get your foot in the door without spending a ton of money on culinary school. See if you like it, then advance with schooling.

The pizza joint owner no one liked, and they took driving jobs just to stay out of the kitchen when he wasn't around, It wasn't just me. Anyways I going to stay around barky and pastry

joec · Mar 23, 2009

I've read some posts on other forums with a lot of pro chef's that talk about staging. By this they mean to find a restaurant and volunteer to work there and they usually learn. As a matter of fact one of them claims he would much rather work with someone that is green completely and willing to learn than a fresh graduate from culinary school. I image though it is pretty much the attitude one brings with him/her when the go to work.

High Cheese · Mar 23, 2009

"someone green"

Good point. They probobly get tired of "But in culinary school we did it this way." lol

Derek · Mar 23, 2009

joec said:
I've read some posts on other forums with a lot of pro chef's that talk about staging. By this they mean to find a restaurant and volunteer to work there and they usually learn. As a matter of fact one of them claims he would much rather work with someone that is green completely and willing to learn than a fresh graduate from culinary school. I image though it is pretty much the attitude one brings with him/her when the go to work.

High Cheese said:
"someone green"

Good point. They probobly get tired of "But in culinary school we did it this way." lol

Lol, I like that expression, Some one green like I am.

Anyhoo thanks for all the advice guys gals.

joec · Mar 23, 2009

High Cheese said:
"someone green"

Good point. They probobly get tired of "But in culinary school we did it this way." lol

I'm sure many of them do and culinary schools are mostly geared for French methods of cooking which means not heavy into knife skills like say a Japanese chef would be. The French cover everything with sauces while the Japanese serve it fresh and raw in some cases so knife cuts are much more important.

Derek · Mar 23, 2009

joec said:
I'm sure many of them do and culinary schools are mostly geared for French methods of cooking which means not heavy into knife skills like say a Japanese chef would be. The French cover everything with sauces while the Japanese serve it fresh and raw in some cases so knife cuts are much more important.

Would knife skills be in pastry & bakry? because I like to go the knife way.

joec · Mar 23, 2009

I've not seen much in the way of knife work in a bakery and have a grand daughter going to culinary school right now. She is also working as a pastry chef for a local restaurant. She uses a lot of things but little in the way of knives though she has some. Then again I had an uncle who owned a bakery in Long Island who's son did ice carvings and life size ice cream figures that look almost alive. He use a lot of sculpture tools, axes and chain saws.

JoeV · Mar 23, 2009

joec said:
He use a lot of sculpture tools, axes and chain saws.

I have had meals that I swear were prepared with these tools! :yum:

High Cheese · Mar 23, 2009

FatManDerek said:
Would knife skills be in pastry & bakry? because I like to go the knife way.

You'll need a Bakers Knife for sure. :chef:

Derek · Mar 23, 2009

joec said:
I've not seen much in the way of knife work in a bakery and have a grand daughter going to culinary school right now. She is also working as a pastry chef for a local restaurant. She uses a lot of things but little in the way of knives though she has some. Then again I had an uncle who owned a bakery in Long Island who's son did ice carvings and life size ice cream figures that look almost alive. He use a lot of sculpture tools, axes and chain saws.

JoeV said:
I have had meals that I swear were prepared with these tools!

Duff uses a lot of kifes & a lot of power tools in his bakery

FryBoy · Mar 23, 2009

Not a bad job, but as with acting, the "celebrity chefs" are few and far between.

Here's a link to national survey data on chefs' salaries, by city: click me

Here's the job description used for that survey:

Job Description: Supervises, coordinates, and participates in activities of cooks and other kitchen personnel engaged in preparing and cooking foods in hotel, restaurant, cafeteria, or other establishment. Job know-how usually involves two to four years of directly related study, training, and/or experience in order to satisfactorily carry out the responsibilities of this job.: Estimates food consumption, and requisitions or purchases foodstuffs. Receives and examines foodstuffs and supplies to ensure quality and quantity meet established standards and specifications. Selects and develops recipes based on type of food to be prepared and applying personal knowledge and experience in food preparation. Supervises personnel engaged in preparing, cooking, and serving meats, sauces, vegetables, soups, and other foods. Cooks or otherwise prepares food according to recipe. Cuts, trims, and bones meats and poultry for cooking. Portions cooked foods, or gives instructions to workers as to size of portions and methods of garnishing. Carves meats. May maintain time and payroll records. May employ, train, and discharge workers. May supervise kitchen staff, plan menus, purchase foodstuffs, and not prepare and cook foods.

Derek · Mar 23, 2009

FryBoy said:
Not a bad job, but as with acting, the "celebrity chefs" are few and far between.

Here's a link to national survey data on chefs' salaries, by city: click me

Here's the job description used for that survey:

Job Description: Supervises, coordinates, and participates in activities of cooks and other kitchen personnel engaged in preparing and cooking foods in hotel, restaurant, cafeteria, or other establishment. Job know-how usually involves two to four years of directly related study, training, and/or experience in order to satisfactorily carry out the responsibilities of this job.: Estimates food consumption, and requisitions or purchases foodstuffs. Receives and examines foodstuffs and supplies to ensure quality and quantity meet established standards and specifications. Selects and develops recipes based on type of food to be prepared and applying personal knowledge and experience in food preparation. Supervises personnel engaged in preparing, cooking, and serving meats, sauces, vegetables, soups, and other foods. Cooks or otherwise prepares food according to recipe. Cuts, trims, and bones meats and poultry for cooking. Portions cooked foods, or gives instructions to workers as to size of portions and methods of garnishing. Carves meats. May maintain time and payroll records. May employ, train, and discharge workers. May supervise kitchen staff, plan menus, purchase foodstuffs, and not prepare and cook foods.

I rather just food prep taste food, mostly do a suchef job!

but thank you for the read, It was pretty good!

FryBoy · Mar 23, 2009

Here's the information on sous chefs' salaries, as of March 16, 2009, according to www.payscale.com. They describe the job like this:

People with the job title Sous Chef typically fall into one of the following PayScale standard occupations.

Chefs and Head Cooks - Direct the preparation, seasoning, and cooking of salads, soups, fish, meats, vegetables, desserts, or other foods. May plan and price menu items, order supplies, and keep records and accounts. May participate in cooking.
Cooks, Restaurant - Prepare, season, and cook soups, meats, vegetables, desserts, or other foodstuffs in restaurants. May order supplies, keep records and accounts, price items on menu, or plan menu.

Median-Salary-by-Years-Experience---Job-Sous-Chef-United-States_USD_20090316050806-v1.0.jpg

Median-Salary-by-Employer-Type---Job-Sous-Chef-United-States_USD_20090316050806-v1.0.jpg

Median-Salary-by-City---Job-Sous-Chef-United-States_USD_20090316050806-v1.0.jpg

Derek · Mar 23, 2009

FryBoy said:
Chefs and Head Cooks [/URL]- Direct the preparation, seasoning, and cooking of salads, soups, fish, meats, vegetables, desserts, or other foods. May plan and price menu items, order supplies, and keep records and accounts. May participate in cooking.

That's pretty much what I like to do but with out the record keeping and food ordering.

JoeV · Mar 23, 2009

Not exactly glory wages. Pay not necessarily commensurate with hours worked. This is one of those occupations where you do it because you love it, not because you'll ever get rich at it. Looks like you need to apply to the Feds for the best pay (and probably the least work). Send resume to:

BHO
1600 Pennsylvania Ave
Washington, DC

joec · Mar 23, 2009

Or have your own business like me and between my wife and I made a whole 38K last year. I wouldn't trade it for the world but then I like to cook but couldn't deal with it in a pro environment at all.

Wart · Mar 23, 2009

FatManDerek said:
I noticed I have I some skills a seasoned chef has all ready, Does that mean I should probably stay in cooking after my camera class?

I don't know what the camera has to do with it,

Should you stay with cooking? I don't know, are you planning on continuing to eat?

:lol:

FryBoy · Mar 23, 2009

It's important to do what you like, but it's also important to know what you're getting into before you jump off the cliff. If the pay and working conditions are acceptable to you, go for it! You don't have to be a celebrity chef to be truly successful, which is measured more by happiness than cash. And if you're lucky, you might be happy AND rich!

VeraBlue · Mar 23, 2009

FatManDerek said:
I rather just food prep taste food, mostly do a suchef job!

but thank you for the read, It was pretty good!

A sous chef is second in command to the chef...the sous most assuredly is not the prep cook.

PapaJoe8 · Mar 23, 2009

Fats, I also stared as a dish washer. I think everyone should! Then I worked my way up to Enchilada roller. Next I was hired away, from another restaurant, to learn how to make all kinds of TexMex dishes.

At this point I am only available in an advisory capacity. No one has offered to pay me for that yet. Hey, I always have sports and poker! It's their loss... :~)

But, if they do Fats... your comin w/ me! If??? you want to.

I do have a few friends in high places. You never know???
Joe

FryBoy · Mar 23, 2009

VeraBlue said:
A sous chef is second in command to the chef...the sous most assuredly is not the prep cook.

Prep cooks are paid considerably less, an average of $17,000 per year according to this site: CLICK ME

A lot of work for $8.17 per hour and probably few or no benefits.

PapaJoe8 · Mar 23, 2009

Hey, all I want is 5% of tha net. :~)
Joe

buckytom · Mar 24, 2009

are those figures for pay scale correct??? i knew that those in the cooking/restaurant bidness don't make a lot, but wtf?

i don't know anyone in nyc that could survive on $46k a year.

maybe in the outer boroughs, if you had really cheap rent.

FryBoy · Mar 24, 2009

buckytom said:
are those figures for pay scale correct??? i knew that those in the cooking/restaurant bidness don't make a lot, but wtf?

i don't know anyone in nyc that could survive on $46k a year.

maybe in the outer boroughs, if you had really cheap rent.

The data are pretty reliable, I believe, but I'll see if I can find what the BLS says.

FWIW, $46K is more than the entry-level salary of public school teachers in NYC: CLICK ME

FryBoy · Mar 24, 2009

The Bureau of Labor Statistics, a division of the U.S Department of Labor, has additional stats on pay in the food industry. The data are a little dated (May 2007) but I doubt there's been much change in the past two years, especially in this sucky economy.

Here's the link:

National Data, Food Preparation and Serving Related Occupations

Click on any of the listed occupations for more information, including a limited breakdown of pay by state and metro areas.

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